Confidence;chicken and egg

[geoffretired]

I was struck by a comment from Rik about confidence.
It does seem to be a chicken and egg situation. If you don't shoot well you won't have much confidence; and without confidence you won't shoot that well!
In the same thread it was mentioned that many archers never find out how a well executed shot feels. I think there could be a link between these two.
Confidence often comes from success. The difficulty seems to be that success is rarely defined in terms that can be achieved by the archer who needs the help.
I feel that success should be defined, bearing in mind the stage the archer has reached and the particular aspect they are working on. Too often the archer is looking to the groups or scores to see success. Too often they are reinforcing their disappointment. I know this idea is not new, but it could be given more air time in coaching sessions (formal or otherwise). Also, it is not just for coaches/helpers to know about. The archers need to know too.
As the aspect being worked on changes, so the definition of success changes.An archer working on clicker control scores the shots by their control over the clicker.At this level, it is possible to help with the feelings generated by good shots. When the control of the clicker was good, the question could be asked,"And could you feel the difference when you did it right?" "That is the feeling you are loking for."
Reinforcing the feeling and matching it to the successful execution will hopefully lead to a better chance of knowing how the whole shot feels when it is "good".
Now that I have unloaded all that weight from my shoulders, the soapbox has stopped creaking. Perhaps I'll use it to paint the top of the fence.
Perhaps I'll go and hide behind it.

[SVL]

I agree with what Geoff says above.

Sometimes I find people set their expectations to high. If you have to deal with somebody who sets high expectations for achievment, try to get them to break it down into smaller steps. If they see they are getting the small achievements then the "high" expectation slowly becomes an achieveable objective.
Also if you are scoring all the time then you are not really focusing on how you shoot but what you shoot. I suggest that at least once or twice a month you should shoot blank boss at close distance so that you can close your eyes and feel what you are doing. If you have never done this before .... try it.

[joetapley]

Every archer knows when they've made a good shot. That the perfectly shot arrow somethimes ends up in the blue is neither here or there. Most end up in the custard.

Now if I could only get the perfect shot ratio up above 1 in 20!.

[geoffretired]

I like the one in twenty ratio, Joe.
Would you agree that archers who are still at the early stages of their learning, might not be overwhelmed by a gold and consider that "better" than some blacks?(blacks which MAY have been well executed)

[joetapley]

If you are spraying arrows randomly then some will end up in the gold. Groups are what matters. 5 reds and gold is better than 5 golds and a miss.

[wingate_52]

The last words of a coach to me where, "if you get 6 in the red you will do well, a few may be gold, so you may do better" then he went off for a pint. It's all about grouping, then moving the group into gold.

[Little Miss Purple]

After a crisis in my technique, I shot last weekend and was confident that my technique had improved even though this was not reflected in my score (it was a PB but I know there has been better)

[geoffretired]

I agree, groups in the wrong colour can be moved with a sight adjustment. I was really thinking about archers who haven't yet shot a group small enough to fit in the red/gold zone. Could they be given confidence in stages? Judge their success by the correct execution of the part of their technique that is being worked on. Rather than cloud that success by judging only the score in the target.

[joetapley]

I was really thinking about archers who haven't yet shot a group small enough to fit in the red/gold zone.

The way to maintain that confidence and "getting better" sensation is to start at a short distance and only move to a longer distance when (most) arrows are grouping in the red. That way archers visually see improvement (from in the black to in the blue etc.). No feedback if arrows are all over the target at a longer distance.

[geoffretired]

Thanks for your inputs ,Joe. I agree with all the things you have said in this thread. However, my mind is running on a slightly different tack and I don't think I've explained myself very well, sorry.
People who are shooting groups at close range, and longer distances, are working to a plan or are fairly consistent.
I am really thinking of those who have no groups ( in their terms) and as a result are not gaining confidence. They are the archers who seem lost and going round in circles. I was just re visiting a different approach. Focus on one weakness. Work on it; and score success by whether they "did that part right" rather than looking at the results in the target and never learning about a well executed shot.
I hope that's a better explanation.