What beginners say.

[geoffretired]

Beginners say some funny things at times. They also say things that make me step back from my intended course and change tack completely. Don't you just love 'em? I love beginners- they shake me up and keep me on my toes);
One expression that gets repeated with great regularity is: " There's so much to remember."
I think this is a serious situation that needs to be addressed. If they are thinking there is so much to remember; are they getting the wrong messages?
I won't go through the details, but I do try to explain that there is very little to remember. ( I honestly do believe that, it is not just a white lie to help them feel better)
The bare bones of the explanation goes like this;
"Tell me all the things you think you need to remember."
" I can't, there's too many of them!" ); (Don't you just love 'em?)
"Ok, I'll make it easier for you. Tell me the TWO things I asked you to do."
" Pull the string by moving my elbow."
"Right. And the next one is...?"
" Was it, try to get the string to reach my face?"
" No, I'm asking the questions, you have to answer them.");
" Sorry. Try to reach my face with the string."
" Correct. Which one are you having trouble remembering?");
" But you've been telling us about....................."
" SO, you have remembered it then?");
At this stage I get a little more serious, just to make a point and show that I do care about their imagined predicament.
" I have asked you to DO two things if you can. Those are the things you need to remember and work on when you are shooting. All the rest was information that may interest you, but you will not need to remember it in order to shoot. Try to keep separate, the shooting bits from the rest."
Sadly, for some, the idea that there is so much to remember never goes away. When beginners finish the course and join in with the club's normal shooting, there is another inrush of information, often from all quarters.
A very delicate time for newbies,I feel. Too much information can be worse than too little.
Does your club get this situation, if so, how do you deal with it?

[Rik]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

Does your club get this situation, if so, how do you deal with it?

On the course itself, instructors are issued with a script to work from, dealing with a different stage of the shot each week. Of course you can't control what the instructors actually say, but you can at least try and get them working from the same page...

After the course it's difficult. In the past, we've tried to start the newcomers off shooting with a particular set of people. Instructors and selected others make an effort to stay shooting with the new guys, to help them settle in. Apart from that, all you can really do is say; 'Any questions, come to one of us and we'll set you straight'. Some people are happy just shooting, some want to dig into technical stuff, so it's difficult to be too proscriptive about what should or shouldn't be said.

[geoffretired]

Thanks ,Rik.
That is helpful. I wonder what other clubs do to help the recent beginners?
Your system sounds good. I am at a new club with rapidly rising numbers of newbies and very few experienced archers. It's a clean sheet in some ways;frought with all the dangers too.
I am trying to get our system in place so we do not confuse by giving conflicting advice. If I post the list of my ideas would you check it out and advise/comment?
Thanks
Geoff

[Rik]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

If I post the list of my ideas would you check it out and advise/comment?
Thanks
Geoff

Happy to help

[geoffretired]

Thanks,Rik.
Guidelines for "helpers"
Beginners know very little;If they learn one thing from you each session that is good for them.
Try to get the beginner to put into their own words what they have "learnt" and check that you both agree.
Once you have said your piece, the beginner won't fully understand until AFTER they have managed to do what you asked-this takes time.
The beginner's build will determine their posture and references, not a one- for- all fit.
If a beginner has a difficulty with parts of their form, deal with them one at a time unless they go hand in hand.
If you have difficulties with part of a beginner's form;seek help.

ASPECTS OF THE SHOT TO LOOK OUT FOR in two parts to simplify; static and moving.

FOOT POSITION
POSTURE FROM THE START
HAND POSITION IN THE GRIP
HAND POSITION ON THE STRING
BOW SHOULDER AT PRE-DRAW
STRING ARM POSITION AT PRE-DRAW

BOW SHOULDER THROUGH THE DRAW
STRING ARM MOVEMENTS THROUGH THE DRAW
REFERENCE POSITIONS AND HEAD MOVEMENTS(IF ANY)
WHEN DOES THE SIGHT REACH THE GOLD
NATURAL FOLLOW THROUGH

These are obviously just the headings; some back up will be needed.
Thanks again for your offer of help.

[Meddler]

Geoff,

You could be in danger of reinventing the wheel.

Get a hold of the Leader's Guide through GNAS or from a friendly local Leader.

There is a teaching sequence in there which breaks down to 10 steps...

Askham's 5 points are another good starting point...
- Standing, Nocking Drawing, Holding, Loosing.

Even Ki Sik Lee has used Askham's 5 points in his shot sequence.

Iain.

[geoffretired]

Thanks Iain.
I do tend to reinvent things, it's one of my many weaknesses.
The list is not really my own, more a paraphrase of other people's with something of "me" thrown in. I suppose it's my training from work coming through. I had to put ideas from others, more knowledgeable than myself, into my own words in order to pass on the information. If I didn't do the paraphrasing first I used to forget what the information was. Now, I find it is the easiest way for me to operate, I've got so used to doing things that way.
I thank you for the advice, nevertheless.
All the best
Geoff

[Rik]

Seems like a reasonable list.
One thing I'd add to the guidelines: Don't correct people too quickly, sometimes they learn best through making mistakes. Do step in to prevent injury, otherwise, let people shoot.

I would check that people know:
1. what the correct hand position is.
2. How to tell (show) people what the correct hand position is.
It's a point a lot of people seem to be weak on.

[geoffretired]

Thanks ,Rik,
You are right about stepping in too quickly and learning from mistakes. I will add those to the outline list. Very helpful, nice one!
Geoff