The pro's and con's of thin, fat, heavy & light arrows

[joetapley]

The great myth being peddled here is that for target archery a heavy arrow shaft is advantage whereas as any knowledgeable coach or archer will tell you the reverse is true. X10 is designed as a target shaft = light shaft. FMJ is a designed as a hunting shaft = heavy shaft. Your correct, no sensible archer would buy an X10 as a hunting arrow just as no sensible target archer would buy an FMJ and , I agree, the Easton arrow selection software reflects this.

Where there is a bun fight is with respect to arrow diameter. For target archery a small diameter is a big advantage (also an advantage but less so for a hunting arrow). Problem is the thinner you make an arrow shaft the heavier it gets - trade off time. Classical example is the X10 v ACE. The X10 has a thinner profile (plus factor) but as a consquence the shaft is heavier (minus factor). End result is very little difference (ignoring basic strength) in performance between the two.

At the lower end of arrow performance you get a cross over so Ali arrows and ACC fit in both target and hunting camps. I think marketing-wise for target Easton are pushing the ACC towards the hunting fraternity with the Navigator coming in as the low end a/c replacement.

(Guessing) The Navigator perhaps illustrates that Easton are (quietly) introducing improvements in arrow technology maybe both in materials and design construction. Could be that in the not too distant future there could be a target arrow with the profile of an X10 and the shaft weight of the ACE. Ever the optimist

[Gibbon]

Originally Posted by joetapley

The great myth being peddled here is that for target archery a heavy arrow shaft is advantage whereas as any knowledgeable coach or archer will tell you the reverse is true. X10 is designed as a target shaft = light shaft. FMJ is a designed as a hunting shaft = heavy shaft. Your correct, no sensible archer would buy an X10 as a hunting arrow just as no sensible target archer would buy an FMJ and , I agree, the Easton arrow selection software reflects this.

Where there is a bun fight is with respect to arrow diameter. For target archery a small diameter is a big advantage (also an advantage but less so for a hunting arrow). Problem is the thinner you make an arrow shaft the heavier it gets - trade off time. Classical example is the X10 v ACE. The X10 has a thinner profile (plus factor) but as a consquence the shaft is heavier (minus factor). End result is very little difference (ignoring basic strength) in performance between the two.

At the lower end of arrow performance you get a cross over so Ali arrows and ACC fit in both target and hunting camps. I think marketing-wise for target Easton are pushing the ACC towards the hunting fraternity with the Navigator coming in as the low end a/c replacement.

(Guessing) The Navigator perhaps illustrates that Easton are (quietly) introducing improvements in arrow technology maybe both in materials and design construction. Could be that in the not too distant future there could be a target arrow with the profile of an X10 and the shaft weight of the ACE. Ever the optimist

sorry if ive got the wrong end of the stick here...., but i thought you wanted the heaviest arrow with the thinest profile you can get sightmarks with...

the idea behind that being that a heavy arrow will suffer from less wind-drift as well as an arrow with a thinner profile... :s

[joetapley]

the idea behind that being that a heavy arrow will suffer from less wind-drift

That's the myth that does the rounds. Trouble is to get past it you either a) have to know something about arrow flight aerodynamics or b) have the knowledge based on actual experience rather than the usual "coach opinion".

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/joetapley/windrift.htm is an attempt at dispelling some of the mythology.

[Marcus26]

Yes you are correct Gibbon, Joe has been incorrect regarding the ACE thing for a long time. He seems to ignore the real world testing done by archers who have shot over 1250 and their results at long range.
The biggest importance is in downrange velocity of a heavy shaft vs a light shaft. Shoot a light arrow like an ACE at 90m and you can watch the thing get blown all over the target. The heavier arrow will maintain it's downrange velocity and withstand that.
Another major factor is that a heavier arrow extracts more energy from the bow which also assists in downrange volocity.

It's not rocket science to look at an arrow and decide whether it would be suitable for a task. Many top scores have been shot with 'hunting' arrows over the years, including 1400's with Gold Tips.

Jerry is using his brain and determining the best arrow for the task based on his requirements. Joe is thinking inside a box.

[Marcus26]

Originally Posted by joetapley

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/joetapley/windrift.htm is an attempt at dispelling some of the mythology.

Website proven wrong by many professionals who have also shot over 1300 both recurve and compound and have actually used X10's and ACE's.

Please stop giving advise on arrows you don't use Joe.

[joetapley]

The heavier arrow will maintain it's downrange velocity and withstand that.

And yet another attempt at myth dispellant;
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/joetapley/downrange.htm

I do agree with Marcus on one point. You should really listen to experienced (olympic level) archers and coaches not nobodys like myself and Marcus.

Originally Posted by joetapley

Where there is a bun fight is with respect to arrow diameter. For target archery a small diameter is a big advantage (also an advantage but less so for a hunting arrow). Problem is the thinner you make an arrow shaft the heavier it gets - trade off time. Classical example is the X10 v ACE. The X10 has a thinner profile (plus factor) but as a consquence the shaft is heavier (minus factor). End result is very little difference (ignoring basic strength) in performance between the two.

Have you actually tested this Joe, or just read it in a theroy book about aerodynamics? The "reality" of all this is the X10 is heavier because it's designed that way and by no means a "minus factor", it's a huge "plus factor". On a wind free day almost any arrow design will perform in similare ways, however, on a windy day the X10 will outperform anything, especially the ACE by a healthy margin. What is more, the Navigator will also outperform an ACE on a windy day too because it's heavier and nearly the same profile. I know because I have tried all three.

IMHO light arrows are only good for archers who struggle to achieve longer distance with heavier ones.

[joetapley]

IMHO light arrows are only good for archers who struggle to achieve longer distance with heavier ones.

Sorry RGSphoto wasn't clear - light shafts are better for target archery. Points should be as heavy as speed and arrow breakage allows. So the heavier arrow is better than the lighter arrow where the weight difference is down to differences in the point weight.

Some (recurve) archers will get better results with X10 than with ACE, some the opposite. The result is dependant on the specific situation. What I'm trying to get over is that "windrift" is too complex a topic for all situations to covered by a soundbite off a cereal packet.

e.g. In theory (and it is theory) say arrow A has more drift than arrow B. It's possible that if you increase the wind speed you can end up with arrow B drifting more than A.

[Marcus26]

Have you ACTUALLY shot these arrows Joe? Have you shot ACE's and X10's etc in the wind and watched them fly? Please do so. I have and the results are very noticable.
Regarding drag vs weight I have also shot flight with X10's and Triples with the Triples being heavier, but thicker and shot further with them despite the same point weight.
I have also shot arrows of 40 grains difference in point weight and the same diamtre and they lose so much energy that the lighter ones barely make 90m despite a 312fps launch speed.

So anyway a heavier arrow will extract more energy rom the bow than a ligheter one, the diamtre of the arrow effects the drag on the arrow will effects the amount of energy lost during flight. 2 arrows of the same diamtre and of different weight will have the lighter arrow losing a higher percentage of it's stored energy than the heavier one.

[Marcus26]

experienced (olympic level) archers and coaches

How many World Class archers have you coached Joe? Promise you I have more on my resume than you do.