Elbow height

[PorlyP]

Can anyone summarise if and why a high draw-arm elbow is better than a horizontal one?

I'm currently drawing with my elbow tracing back horizontally, and as I've seen people with high elbows, what the difference and benefits were.

If it doesn't really matter, then great.

[Murray]

Check out the KSL site.

"The tip of the elbow, when viewed from the side, should either be in line with the arrow or just a touch higher. If the elbow is too high, the lower trapezius and latissimus back muscles, which are required during the transfer phase, are at the very least difficult if not impossible to activate properly."

Some people raise their draw elbows significantly to "get on their back", and also to get it back behind the line... it really depends on the flexibility of the archer but as KSL states above, use of the right muscles is paramount in choosing the correct position.

[PorlyP]

Originally Posted by Murray

Check out the KSL site.

"The tip of the elbow, when viewed from the side, should either be in line with the arrow or just a touch higher. If the elbow is too high, the lower trapezius and latissimus back muscles, which are required during the transfer phase, are at the very least difficult if not impossible to activate properly."

Some people raise their draw elbows significantly to "get on their back", and also to get it back behind the line... it really depends on the flexibility of the archer but as KSL states above, use of the right muscles is paramount in choosing the correct position.

Excellent, thanks Murray, that's certainly one less thing for me to worry about.

Maybe I'm not doing /that/ much wrong then, after all!

[geoffretired]

PorlyP, I'm not sure that I have fully understood what you mean by high elbow etc but if I give two answers perhaps one is close to what you want to know.
Some people start the draw with both hands at about eye level. The elbow in that case is at eye level too and this makes the elbow "look" high. The upper arm is sloping up from shoulder to elbow adding to the high appearance.
When they draw, the draw happens above shoulder level and helps keep the bow shoulder down in place. As the draw lengthens, both hands and draw elbow drop slowly down into the full draw posture.
Some people start the draw from just under chin level. As they draw the draw hand is sliding along a line level with and close to the bow arm.
There is a higher risk of the bow shoulder lifting as the forces are almost encouraging the lift.
If you try both methods, without intending to shoot, I think you will find one feels easier to do. In the sense that the bow draw weight seems less.
If your question was about drawing the string hand level with the bow arm but with the string elbow higher than both hands, then that is another story.
Some people do draw that way. Perhaps that's because they don't know they are doing it. I'm not sure they want to draw that way.

[Thunk]

Start with the bow arm. There are two forces acting on it. Dowwnward, from the weight of the arm itself and the weight of the bow; and a compression load which appears when you start to draw and increases until full draw. The compression is transmitted through the bones of the bow arm to the shoulder, where it helps lock the ball and socket joint. Using a 'high draw' - that is, drawing so that the elbow describes a vertical curve as the drawing hand moves back, means that the tension induced by the draw is above the line of compression until the draw is completed, at which point it should be in line. Having the tension above the compression line throughout the draw phase helps counteract the downward force on the bow arm and hopfully makes it more certain that the bow arm will be in the correct position at loose.

I'm sure one of our knowledgeable coaches is going to shoot me down in flames and tell me it's all wrong, but that's how I worked it out! I use a high draw and it seems the most comfortable - but maybe that's just because I'm used to it.

[PorlyP]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

PorlyP, I'm not sure that I have fully understood what you mean by high elbow etc but if I give two answers perhaps one is close to what you want to know.
Some people start the draw with both hands at about eye level. The elbow in that case is at eye level too and this makes the elbow "look" high. The upper arm is sloping up from shoulder to elbow adding to the high appearance.
When they draw, the draw happens above shoulder level and helps keep the bow shoulder down in place. As the draw lengthens, both hands and draw elbow drop slowly down into the full draw posture.
Some people start the draw from just under chin level. As they draw the draw hand is sliding along a line level with and close to the bow arm.
There is a higher risk of the bow shoulder lifting as the forces are almost encouraging the lift.
If you try both methods, without intending to shoot, I think you will find one feels easier to do. In the sense that the bow draw weight seems less.
If your question was about drawing the string hand level with the bow arm but with the string elbow higher than both hands, then that is another story.
Some people do draw that way. Perhaps that's because they don't know they are doing it. I'm not sure they want to draw that way.

Another wicked answer, so firstly, thanks again!

While my question was about the latter answer happening, but the former is actually more help, and gives me something to try this weekend.

[PorlyP]

Originally Posted by Thunk

Start with the bow arm. There are two forces acting on it. Dowwnward, from the weight of the arm itself and the weight of the bow; and a compression load which appears when you start to draw and increases until full draw. The compression is transmitted through the bones of the bow arm to the shoulder, where it helps lock the ball and socket joint. Using a 'high draw' - that is, drawing so that the elbow describes a vertical curve as the drawing hand moves back, means that the tension induced by the draw is above the line of compression until the draw is completed, at which point it should be in line. Having the tension above the compression line throughout the draw phase helps counteract the downward force on the bow arm and hopfully makes it more certain that the bow arm will be in the correct position at loose.

I'm sure one of our knowledgeable coaches is going to shoot me down in flames and tell me it's all wrong, but that's how I worked it out! I use a high draw and it seems the most comfortable - but maybe that's just because I'm used to it.

Ah, I see, I've always instinctually drawn in a level, straight line, but had never tried any other way, so I won't know the tension difference between the techniques until I try them.

Cheers!

[Mufti]

Depending on your flexibility and how much you want to draw behind the line (if you do at all that is), then level arms means your shoulder blades will clash with each other, raising your rear elbow allows them to overlap - well it does in my case, no more restricted rear arm, but maybe I'm an odd shape?

Try it without a bow, both arms level and push them both back together, shoulder blades meet and stop arms from moving right?
Now raise drawing elbow just a little, shoulder blades over lap!
What odd things we discover.

[Witchie Poo Cat]

When I first started my beginners course 5 weeks ago I was drawing straight back as you are. However, when I went for my 2nd lesson I commented on how my right bicep was aching after the last lesson. I was then told to try raising the draw elbow while drawing, kind of in a curve, so that the elbow is back down in its rightful place at full draw. This meant that the correct back muscles were engaged during the draw and the draw felt much, MUCH easier. I now do this automatically and I find it very comfortable and at least I know the weight is on my back and not on my arms now.

When I look along the shooting line there is a mixture of high elbow at draw and straight, however it appears to my untrained eye that most of the people who draw straight are shooting compound so maybe thats the reason??

Its worth a try, see if it works for you, if not then just do what you normally do!