Clicker Problem

[Kae]

It's cold, its snowing heavily, I can't go anywhere, I've just covered the car so that it doesn't take 2 hours to defrost in the morning, and i'm sitting comfortably, So I will begin.


I think one of the biggest problems with using a clicker is that the initial arrows after attaching one tend to be worse than your normal shooting. So you instantly build a psychological connection; clicker = poor shooting.
Your told to stick with it, so you practice. Do you know if its set up correctly? Probably not if you haven't got a (GOOD) coach, so you practice and practice. Over-drawing becomes the norm because it hasn't been set up properly. Pulling through the clicker now becomes a psychological battle. IF I can pull through, THEN I can release. IF I can release, THEN I can hit the target. There is no continuation in the shot sequence, and so you start to replicate these separate psychological battles in your shooting. Everything becomes separated; Draw to the clicker, draw through the clicker, sight the bow, release etc. Which is the wrong way to use one.
Clicker use should be easy. It should be part of the draw, not a separate stage. I think that when it is separated into such, then thats when you start to get clicker panic as Geoff has described.

I think the only way to fix this is to start from basics. Remove the clicker and get the archer (under coaching) to develop a consistent, comfortable draw. When this has been achieved and reinforced (so a consistent form for at least a couple of weeks), THEN the clicker can be re-introduced and attached correctly. This is when the archer is introduced into a full draw, then squeezing the shoulder blades to pull the arrow through the clicker.
If the archer is put back onto the clicker too soon, then the clicker panic just comes back, and you have to start again - which hinders the archers belief in shooting.

Kae.

[buzz lite beer]

The worst problem I had and that sometimes shows it's ugly head now and again with clicker shooting is the failing to continue the pull, getting lost somewhere along my shooting sequence, the aiming becomes more critical than it should be and things stop moving, but its instantly diagnosed the moment the slightest hesitation is experienced, and is usually eliminated at once. Other problems I've experienced when 1st setting up a clicker using a new rig is getting through on occasion to soon, the resultant raised bow shoulder compensation method being employed making for inconsistent grouping, and conversely having the clicker set to close leads to over extending drawing the bow string at a shallower angle leading to reduced clearance past the chest and arms.

[BowSurfer]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

Thanks for the posts. Would you say that the final draw just before the click, is hesitant? How do you feel when it doesn't go soon enough? Do you feel a little apprehension perhaps?

I don't know about hesitant, but it can be very annoying. You have everything nicely lined up, draw back - nothing; a bit more - nothing You get to wondering when the thing is going to go, and by the time it does you're straining so much it goes way off into the boondocks.

This is not helped by the fact that I am admittedly slightly overbowed - BUT

If I get everything right, The draw comes righ the way back, the weight drops down into my lower back, all is relaxed, and it just eases back through the clicker and is gone - then it is fine and no strain at all. The problem is having enough concentration to do it like that every time (which is what I am currently working on). Moving the clicker wouldn't help because then if I get it right I have drawn right through the clicker and have to come down and do it again.

I did try not using a clicker for a while - it was a disaster. 60 m - OK, then down to 30 and every shot I was loosing long before I reached fulld raw. I could see myself doing it, willing myself not to, and there it is gone again! The only way out was back to the clicker and then I could come to full draw no problem - and that was with my previous lighter weight limbs.

[geoffretired]

I've just come back from doing the beginners course!! So many responses in the time I was away.Thanks to all those who have added their posts. This is turning out to be really interesting and very useful. Thanks again.
One thing to note is the use of the clicker. If someone draws through and waits two seconds before loosing, they are not in the same situation that is being discussed here. I am not belittling that technique, but the hesitation isn't there because the click is not the trigger for their shot. The clicker is a stage that they go through before the loose is even considered.
For those who loose on the c of click, the hesitation is real enough and most of us know how that feels. My initial question was about why? Why do so many hesitate?Putting all your posts together it seems there is a common factor. "Getting the priority wrong".
Over aiming. Waiting for the click. Forgetting to draw. Thinking I'm drawing when I'm not. Losing the flow. Focussing on the clicker.
All the above were seen as faults. Detracting from the real priority. Perhaps the solution for those with clicker hesitation is to know what is priority number one.Then to make sure it is their number one priority.The aspect they will not compromise. For many it is the aim. Even if it shakes, the shot will go, so long as the sight is roughly in the gold , if only temporarily.
If I have understood you correctly, the priority should be a quality aim built on a quality draw; and the key word is "priority".

[hooktonboy]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

......
One thing to note is the use of the clicker. If someone draws through and waits two seconds before loosing, they are not in the same situation that is being discussed here. I am not belittling that technique,....".

No I wasn't either...the lady concerned is a real class shooter. I was just illustrating that without coaching you can look around you at good archers and become confused because you see what they do, not what their thought process is.

Geoff, for me this has been a really good thread - made me think about what was going on with my own technique. Thanks for asking (as usual) the hard question.

[Flying Whale]

The whole thread seems to show to me how hard it is to find a right way to do anything in archery. Or maybe I should say ot seems hard to find a cohesive argument that fits with everyone, and helps them to achieve teir best.

Maybe it also explains why some achieve more than others, when the early indications of "talent" or "aptitude" get overturned.

My understanding was that with a clicker it should act as the trigger for a "surprise" release...assuming that the brain would adjust and pull the sight fully concentric on the gold. The biggest problem for me is that I have pretty fast reactions.... and the brain also acts to anticipate. Thus the click/release merges, and the brain may be doing its utmost to make things worse. There are times when I know the sight is not on the gold as the clicker drops, but I still let go.... an the arrow does not go in the gold.

I feel for me, the best is when I really am in full control of the timing of the pre-draw, the setup and the shot. Then I come through the clicker easily, and I am in no rush to shoot... I probably hold for a couple of tenths of a second (but it may feel like more), it feels wonderfully relaxed...I can really concentrate on the centre of the gold...and in slow motion I can actually watch most of the arrow flight, as the bow slowly rolls forward.

At this poitn the click er has probably not controlled me. It has certainly not scared me. It has acted as a natural trigger to get the final alignment and release. And assuming I really do thing right, wtahc it fly in to the gold.

Not bad when I normally can't see an arrow in the target at more than 7 yards because of soft vision.

Looking forward to when I can do it every time, and turn my brain off. Then I might become a little better than mediocre.

BTW: Keep the penetrative questions coming GeoffRetired

[Snarkhunter]

Originally Posted by BowSurfer

If I get everything right, The draw comes righ the way back, the weight drops down into my lower back, all is relaxed, and it just eases back through the clicker and is gone - then it is fine and no strain at all. The problem is having enough concentration to do it like that every time (which is what I am currently working on). Moving the clicker wouldn't help because then if I get it right I have drawn right through the clicker and have to come down and do it again.

Spot on! Having the clicker where it is seems about right but it can be a real struggle to pull that last mm or so!

A fascinating thread, if a little depressing. Lots of detail about how much I'm doing wrong but at least balanced by the wealth of suggestions about how to rectify my technique.

Thanks, as always, to the gurus of AIUK.

[Menace]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

I've just come back from doing the beginners course!! So many responses in the time I was away.Thanks to all those who have added their posts. This is turning out to be really interesting and very useful. Thanks again.
One thing to note is the use of the clicker. If someone draws through and waits two seconds before loosing, they are not in the same situation that is being discussed here. I am not belittling that technique, but the hesitation isn't there because the click is not the trigger for their shot. The clicker is a stage that they go through before the loose is even considered.
For those who loose on the c of click, the hesitation is real enough and most of us know how that feels. My initial question was about why? Why do so many hesitate?Putting all your posts together it seems there is a common factor. "Getting the priority wrong".
Over aiming. Waiting for the click. Forgetting to draw. Thinking I'm drawing when I'm not. Losing the flow. Focussing on the clicker.
All the above were seen as faults. Detracting from the real priority. Perhaps the solution for those with clicker hesitation is to know what is priority number one.Then to make sure it is their number one priority.The aspect they will not compromise. For many it is the aim. Even if it shakes, the shot will go, so long as the sight is roughly in the gold , if only temporarily.
If I have understood you correctly, the priority should be a quality aim built on a quality draw; and the key word is "priority".

Totaly agree Geof i think i have suffered most of the above & only been shooting 2 1/2 years, things are so bad ill be at full draw stareing at the gold through my sight holding a good steady shot & drawing waiting for clicker & nothing ? then somone elses clicker goes & my arrows gone, 7 next arrow in draw pull through clicker havent even aimed miss, looking at this thread has helped as i know what i need to focus on cheers

[geoffretired]

"There are times when I know the sight is not on the gold as the clicker drops, but I still let go.... an the arrow does not go in the gold."
Flying Whale, I guess every clicker shooter has been there; many still are.
I would add that, what seems like a failing in the clicker/surprise release technique is also there in the "no clicker" technique and in the "click hold then go" technique. With the surprise release the clicker/surprise gets the blame.
With the other clicker technique, the blame gets placed on varying aspects so there appears to be no real culprit.Similarly for those with no clicker.
Do archers without clickers release when the sight is not in the gold? Yes sometimes. Do archers who hold a while after the click? Yes sometimes. They need to be more in control; they know that anyway. I feel it's just the same for click/ surprise execution.

"drawing waiting for clicker & nothing"
Menace, I wish I had a pound for every archer who has been there!
Waiting for the clicker, I feel is not the best way to use it. For one thing, it suggests that not much is happening and it makes the clicker seem "all important". ( You wait for me, my lad; I don't wait for you.)
I guess you are working on a different way to operate it now.
And; Thanks again for all the inputs. I appreciate all the effort that has been put in to explain your thinking.

[WhitehartFB]

Originally Posted by geoffretired

drawing waiting for clicker & nothing"
at all .

IMO one of the reasons the clicker causes so many problems is because it is not set in the right position. Most people either set it up on their own or with some help. Although the problem seems to be that all the concentration is directed at the riser tip of arrow and clicker blade, not the whole package. The use of a clicker ties in with using the back muscles correctly and therefore having good line and a good stable shooting platform. So when setting the clicker you should pay attention to these as well otherwise it will be set too short or too long and the archer will end up compensating form to make the clicker work (been there). If the clicker is set correctly then it should be an effortless part of the shot sequence. If it is not then it's telling you something is wrong with your shot execution and you should come down and start again.