Flappy loose

[Schme1440]

Thanks for the input geoff. My bow sholder does look high but it is infact in a straight line (as close as makes no difference) with my sholders. To lower it is toforce it to move into an uncomfortable position. I think the aspect I need to work on is what you and Murray pointed out. Relax the draw arm. This maytake a little practice but I should be able to crack it with a little practice. I am lucky enough to be able to adjust my technique quite easlly. Thanks again for the advise.

[Duss]

Interesting to see a movie of someone shooting, Schme1440.

I notice a few things :
1- drawing the string before having completely lifted the bow arm. It prevents the bow shoulder from taking a "correct", relaxed and low position. It also affects the bow arm's behaviour during the release.
2- your drawing shoulder could be considered to be too high (it does not look like a bicycle chain)
3- your release is not really smooth and relaxed, your hand flies outwards and then tries to come back towards the neck...
4- your bow hand does not seem to move "naturally" after the shot. The bow also makes an exaggerated motion after the shot

Thank you for the examples

[Duss]

Originally Posted by Duss

2- your drawing shoulder could be considered to be too high (it does not look like a bicycle chain)

OOPS I meant the drawing ELBOW

[Brycedale]

Originally Posted by Schme1440

Now as you will see from these vids I have a slightly flappy loose. This is partly to do with my high elbow. Now to lower said elbow It causes the elbow to be out of line on the horizontal line when a full draw. Any advise on solving this high elbow and flappy loose would be greatly appreciated. My loose is and has always been my biggest problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjPrWQ0aO0c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3UI5sdTeSY

P.S. The vids loaded a bit wrong so just manually adjust the slider to get the picture moving again. Oh and yes the vids are slowed down for the purpose of a better look at my technique.

I see that you are located in Hornchurch. They've got some good coaches in Essex. In my opinion you do need to get someone who can watch you "in person" The Videos are not clear enough to form a really considered opinion.
Your elbow is very high. There should be a straight line known as the Draw Force Line (DFL) from the point of the arrow through the nock, through the wrist to the point of the elbow. The elbow should be right behind the nock. As some one pointed in an earlier post "too much arm, not enough back". The fault lays partly in your initial set up, there is no "unit aiming" ie you're standing upright and then raising the bowarm to suit your line. In my opinion I think that you are not taking the string on all three fingers, but I am unable to see this aspect on the video. I would imagine that your loose is a bit 3,2,1 Because you are not taking the weight of the bow on you back your loose is a bit fly away and the follow through with the drawing arm is caused by you and not by the natural backward flow of the sudden action of string release. I hope that these thought are taken in the spirit with which they are given as by simply posing the question it is obvious that you want to improve your archery.
I am no longer a certificated coach as I got fed up with all the new regulations that were being thrown at us but I was a coach from 1973 until last year and I have coached to top archers in my time.

[English Bowman]

I couldn't agree with the post above more, no point in repeating what's been said, but spot on Brycedale

[Murray]

DFL - too much emphasis, IMO is placed on the height of the elbow - that's what tiller is for! I believe it's much more important, for shot consistency, to get the elbow as close to "behind the bow" as possible.

[Schme1440]

Originally Posted by Brycedale

I see that you are located in Hornchurch. They've got some good coaches in Essex. In my opinion you do need to get someone who can watch you "in person" The Videos are not clear enough to form a really considered opinion.
Your elbow is very high. There should be a straight line known as the Draw Force Line (DFL) from the point of the arrow through the nock, through the wrist to the point of the elbow. The elbow should be right behind the nock. As some one pointed in an earlier post "too much arm, not enough back". The fault lays partly in your initial set up, there is no "unit aiming" ie you're standing upright and then raising the bowarm to suit your line. In my opinion I think that you are not taking the string on all three fingers, but I am unable to see this aspect on the video. I would imagine that your loose is a bit 3,2,1 Because you are not taking the weight of the bow on you back your loose is a bit fly away and the follow through with the drawing arm is caused by you and not by the natural backward flow of the sudden action of string release. I hope that these thought are taken in the spirit with which they are given as by simply posing the question it is obvious that you want to improve your archery.
I am no longer a certificated coach as I got fed up with all the new regulations that were being thrown at us but I was a coach from 1973 until last year and I have coached to top archers in my time.

Some great advise thanks for everyone who has posted.

So the main things that come up are

1. Work on getting more weight on the back and inturn relaxing the arm.
2. Lowering the draw arm elbow.

With point 2. I have tried this in the past and it feels really alien. However with these comments I think I will need to work on it some more. I can achieve this quite easily with out any pressure but as soon as the pressure of the bow is applied my elbow springs up like a dog cocking his leg. Im not 100% convinced on all this unit aiming crap. Untill I get can get clear cut evidence or see it for my self that it actuall makes a difference then I wont bother with it. But thanks for the suggestion anyway.

[JohnKR]

I am a beginner and I am constantly being told my loose is flappy. I filmed myself after seeing this thread, and my loose appears very similar to yours. I spoke to an older club member, not a coach, and he advised to use a blank butt, no aiming, and even shoot eyes closed, so to concentrate on nothing but keeping back tension, and a relaxed fore arm.
I did this today for very few arrows before it came natural. Perhaps I will have to repeat the exercise before it becomes second nature, but it looks like a quick method to correct this fault in my case.
John.

[Schme1440]

Originally Posted by JohnKR

I am a beginner and I am constantly being told my loose is flappy. I filmed myself after seeing this thread, and my loose appears very similar to yours. I spoke to an older club member, not a coach, and he advised to use a blank butt, no aiming, and even shoot eyes closed, so to concentrate on nothing but keeping back tension, and a relaxed fore arm.
I did this today for very few arrows before it came natural. Perhaps I will have to repeat the exercise before it becomes second nature, but it looks like a quick method to correct this fault in my case.
John.

Havent done a lot of blank boss shooting for a few years. Think this may be an avenue I need to investigate.

[dino1300]

Originally Posted by Schme1440

So the main things that come up are

1. Work on getting more weight on the back and inturn relaxing the arm.
2. Lowering the draw arm elbow.

I have said it before, but have a look at http://www.kslinternationalarchery.com/ and possibly buy the book Total Archery.

I have been shooting for 26 years, and this is by miles the best information I have ever come across.

The best bits i have found:

Do 95% of the draw BEFORE bothering about the aim, just have the sight pin in the general direction, but above the gold so that you can drop onto aim. Really get the draw scapula deep and behind you, this allows the drawing forarm to be really relaxed while you are aiming.

At the point of execution, get a feeling of expansion / relaxation accross the chest, AND snap the shoulder blades together, rather than a gentle increase. Because the muscles are so far from the action the effect on the draw hand and string is one of posotive presure, not a yank as you would expect.

Try drawing the bow behind your neck (one of the warm up / practice exersises). The feeling of your shoulder blades together IS acheivable at full draw.