Yay! I sorted out my grouping...

[Beardy]

A few twists in the string, then a few more and my arrows were all over themselves. At least they were at the start of the evening as the evening wore on, my sight mark dropped as I got tierd, and had a good demonstration of why a clcker is a good idea. Not for me yet though, as getting my full draw length became increasingly more difficult. Still I managed some fantastic groupings so now I'm happy with my arrows again.

A question though, how relavent is my grouping at 15m to that which will be demonstrated at longer distances (last night ws the last club night in doors for this season) Am I going to have to tweak all over again once I'm out side? I do mena tweak as well, I've not yet done a full formal tune, I'm still shooting with the set up as done by the shop.

Right, better go and do some work, last day in today for a fortnioght

[wingate_52]

Thursday we shot our last indoor session, max 20yards. On sunday we will be shooting a York, plenty of lost arrows from some archers. I shot my sight marks on monday not a boy scout, just prepared.

[Duss]

Beardy,

Your sights lowering later on usually means that you are not keeping the same head posture/position, due to fatigue. Even with a clicker... Form an consistency...

Also too long a drawlength is not too good since it will prevent your taking and maintaining a supple position. The release will then be more erratic. Finding a correct drawlength is something worth taking time over.

Cheers

[TWIW]

I maintain that you can't shoot properly with a clicker unless you have a consistant drawlength. But then if you have a consistant drawlength what do you need a clicker for? The original concept of the clicker bears no relation to what it is used for today.

Colin

[Jakdaw]

Originally Posted by thewayitwas

I maintain that you can't shoot properly with a clicker unless you have a consistant drawlength. But then if you have a consistant drawlength what do you need a clicker for? The original concept of the clicker bears no relation to what it is used for today.

Colin

Hi Colin,
Being new to the sport I have only known clickers as they are used today.
How were they originally used?

Thanks
Jeff

[Duss]

I myself have a fairly constant drawlength. However, some of my younger charges did have some problems with their drawlength. Some others had some target panic.

At my club we have successfully solved those two problems with the correct use of a clicker. I have to point out that it should not be used with early beginners, since they have to acquire the fundamental shooting form before using a clicker.

The clicker will concentrate the attention on the process itself up to the anchoring point. THEN one will look and acquire the target. That actually helps in solving much of the target panic.

Two of those young ones had a very variable drawlength and in a few days they became very much more stable.

Even for people with a fairly stable drawlength the clicker is useful for MAINTAINING it. More so if one has to shoot outdoors and at long distances where the shooting position will change with the distances. The clicker makes sure the position will remain the same and the ORIENTATION will be adapted through correct flexion just above the hips.

The clicker is a tool and if used correctly will help improving consistency.

[Little Miss Purple]

Originally Posted by Duss

I myself have a fairly constant drawlength. However, some of my younger charges did have some problems with their drawlength. Some others had some target panic.

At my club we have successfully solved those two problems with the correct use of a clicker. I have to point out that it should not be used with early beginners, since they have to acquire the fundamental shooting form before using a clicker.

The clicker will concentrate the attention on the process itself up to the anchoring point. THEN one will look and acquire the target. That actually helps in solving much of the target panic.

Two of those young ones had a very variable drawlength and in a few days they became very much more stable.

Even for people with a fairly stable drawlength the clicker is useful for MAINTAINING it. More so if one has to shoot outdoors and at long distances where the shooting position will change with the distances. The clicker makes sure the position will remain the same and the ORIENTATION will be adapted through correct flexion just above the hips.

The clicker is a tool and if used correctly will help improving consistency.

I got my clicker when I reached 550 on a portsmouth - the difference in my shooting would be noticed outside at longer distances...... that was the reasoning. I can see the reasoning as you can then use the clicker to ensure you achieve the same draw length every time... of course, this doesn't allow for forward loose or not using the clicker correctly and end up with a varying draw lenght anyway.

[Random_guy]

There have been a number of clicker threads on the forum, usually with the same arguments for and against. I have to say, personally, i didn't have a consistent drawlength when i put the clicker on, and by spending the time learning how to use the clicker properly, it in turn made my draw length much more consistent. I've seen a number of ppl shooting at competitions shooting with a clicker, who draw through, let it click, aim for a bit, then execute the shot. All the time they're aiming/ executing the draw will change, however minutely. When they watch me shoot, with the almost instantanious release when the clicker goes off, sometimes they tell me that i'm 'a clicker slave' or similar.

I ususally smile politely and say nothing, as they are fairly adament they're right, but shooting as soon as the clicker goes is *not* being a clicker slave and neither is allowing it to be a conditioned reaction. IMO this is exactly what you want. BUT you don't want the clicker to be the only stimuli, having everything else right, and being committed making the shot should also be in place and *then* when it goes off the reaction is subconscious and conditioned.

[TWIW]

Originally Posted by Jakdaw

Hi Colin,
Being new to the sport I have only known clickers as they are used today.
How were they originally used?

Thanks
Jeff

The clicker first appeared in the UK in the 1950s brought over by a South African shooting in an international championship. Because he swept the board his shooting was looked at and everyone noticed the clicker. For years no one thought to ask him what is was for and assumed that it was a draw length indicator (trigger). In actual fact he installed it to keep his arrows on his rest (pretty crude in them days) in the wind etc!!!!!!

As for using it to maintain your draw length as you change distance or to prevent creep: this is using it as a crutch for sloppy form. Proper practice where you become aware of the 'tension' across your shoulders/back muscles when at full draw is what you should be aiming for (pun intended). If you can train your sub concious to feel this sensation every time just like you do with the rest of the shot then you will know whether you're at full draw and maintaining that draw length regardless of the distance you're shooting. I was taught long ago that regardless of the distance draw the bow up as though it was 10yds away then elevate the sight by rotaing at the waist to aim on the gold. Alternatively, allow your subconcious to effect the required elevation by looking at the target with both eyes open: your subconcious will attempt to place the circle of the sight ring concentrically within the circles of the target.

LMP said:

"The clicker will concentrate the attention on the process itself up to the anchoring point. THEN one will look and acquire the target. That actually helps in solving much of the target panic."

How so? Is the archer looking at the clicker as the arrow comes underneath it? If so then the clicker is determining the draw length now, there is a greater chance that the weight of the draw will not get on the back because the draw is likely to be slower and a draw that is too slow will prevent the back from loading and the weight will stay on the arms. Where does the sight end up using this method? The subconcious has no chance to align the draw with the target because there is no visual reference to the target for it to work on. Also by looking at the clicker the subconcious effort is almost entirely switched off. The only good outcome of this draw was that it took the archer's mind off the target during the draw thereby reducing the effect of target panic. But what caused the panic in the first place? Often this can becaused by too heavy a bow coupled with a desire to achieve a high score: the bow is too heavy to hold comfortably at full draw therefore the shot is hurried. Also the desire to hit the gold often leads to loosing as soon as the sight gets on the gold regardless of whether the shot has been completed properly.

Random_guy said

"I ususally (sic) smile politely and say nothing, as they are fairly adament (sic)they're right, but shooting as soon as the clicker goes is *not* being a clicker slave and neither is allowing it to be a conditioned reaction. IMO this is exactly what you want. BUT you don't want the clicker to be the only stimuli, having everything else right, and being committed making the shot should also be in place and *then* when it goes off the reaction is subconscious and conditioned."

If you're going to use one then this is the best way. BUT what happens if, at the point of the clicker 'going off' the wind gusts and the sight moves off gold, or a sudden squall of rain arrives. Where does the arrow end up? Can you come down after the click or are you condidtioned such that, all other things being set up right the click triggers the shot? What happens when you get tired?

Colin

[Shirt]

Originally Posted by thewayitwas

If you're going to use one then this is the best way. BUT what happens if, at the point of the clicker 'going off' the wind gusts and the sight moves off gold, or a sudden squall of rain arrives. Where does the arrow end up? Can you come down after the click or are you condidtioned such that, all other things being set up right the click triggers the shot? What happens when you get tired?

Either you've felt something about to go skewiff and have decided to come down anyway, so it's not a problem; or you throw your front arm as hard as you can, nearly cripple the guy next to you on the line, and it goes in the middle anyway.

Use the force, Luke.