What next for beginners?

[General Dogs]

From reading various posts on AIUK there is a definite theme of beginners feeling like they have been left to fend for themselves after completing their beginners course.

I completed my beginners course at the end of last summer and since then have had only sporadic advice from coaches who are mostly occupied with the latest batch of beginners from the indoor course and the junior members.

I would welcome the opportunity for a few follow-up sessions, perhaps every few months over the year following the beginners course. These would provide opportunities to develop your technique and to "nip in the bud" any poor habits that are developing.

At the moment I have used AIUK and various books / websites to learn the next steps and have found these sources to be excellent. There is no substitute however for having direct feedback from an experienced coach.

[ThePinkOne]

Originally Posted by Jimster71

I'm definitely trying to shoot more arrows. I've managed to shoot every night for 4 days on the trot. I realise that I need to be accurate with tight groups at short distances to have any hope of hitting the long distances.

On my 9m target at home, I'm eventually aiming to have everything in the 10 on a 40cm target. Currently I have everything within an 8 on a 60cm at that distance.

I'd also suggest you grab one of your club coaches and see if you can work with them a bit- now is the time to correct any basic form issues. The more arrows you shoot, the more you consolidate any bad habits, the harder it'll be later. There's a real difference between "practice" and "training" and just shooting lots of arrows can fall into the former category very easily if not focused and directed. Yes, stamina is important- but so is basic form and technique. The latter is very difficult to learn on your own and/or from books IMO, although some archers claim great success this way.

From the logistical point of view, once beginners' is over, it's up to you to approach a coach- I believe the coaching etiquette is such that they will not approach you unless (a) you are doing something unsafe or (b) you are at a specific session for improvement, although no doubt Geoff or Meddler will correct me if I'm wrong here!

In our club we do run improvers' sessions once a month, but even then it is up the archer to decide to come. It's easy to blame clubs/coaches for this perceived lack of support, but to be honest if you want to improve it's up to you- go out there, get a coach and work at it- "seek and thou shalt find..." (albeit eventually in some cases). Also remember, there's quite a few people who do archery for relaxation/fun, so for some, offers of coaching could be regarded as imposing....

Yeah I know, TPO defending the coaches point of view... but seriously, sometimes coaches are in a catch-22- can't win. So go on, go ask them- I'm sure they will be only too pleased to help you.

Part 2 is what to do if you have no club coaches about...... but that's another issue, again can be solved but it can also take effort.

JMO though.

P.

[geoffretired]

If there are archers at the club who can run a beginners' course, there is an opportunity for follow on sessions. If those sessions are not being offered, perhaps it is a matter of drawing someone's attention to the fact that some archers would welcome them.
There are all sorts of reasons why the request might be turned down, but there might be a way round those reasons.Is there a club near by with coaches to spare? Can those coaches be brought in, or could the archers visit the other club ?
Being asked to give some coaching can be a powerful incentive to a coach.
Putting up with having no follow on sessions, is a great way to ensure they aren't offered.
I have offered to coach archers and I have been asked by archers if I would coach them. I know which I prefer.
Once the routine has been established it can go from strength to strength;it becomes part of "what the club does".

[Rhys]

I know I'm only really in the stages of learning to coach at the moment, but i've tried to put a follow on course together for after our beginners are shooting reasonably well. (I saw some beginners at a local club and they werent even at that standard, coaches were more interested in having a chat than actually coaching, hence why only one stayed on!)
I try and put in a new lesson each week, starting with making sure the stance is solid and explaining why some people use different stances, moving onto bow shoulder etc etc.
Everyone knows they dont have to do each lesson and i only call over those interested at the start, but i start each with a demonstration of what i mean, some methods i've picked up from people who coach me and from books that they can use, and then i let them go shooting and i walk the line to see how they're doing and offer pointers.
This goes on for about a month after the beginners course, after which i let them know that i'm always available for questions and reference them to some books and websites that might be useful.

The things i do may overrun with what people might call a beginners course, but by the end i try and make sure everyone is shooting with good form (and not just reasonable form) and that they are happy with the way they're doing things. I'm doing the level 1 course soon, not that it will help me in any way whatsoever, but i hope over the years to work on my coaching almost as much as my own shooting, but i always hope that people can think of me as approachable, i've seen several coaches not let people know how happy they are to give advice.

[geoffretired]

Rhys, I think what you are doing is great.I wish you well with the coaching.
Coaches who don't coach???? What's that all about?
I can see two reasons, there may be more. The opportunity to coach someone has not arisen, through no fault of anyone.
The coach doesn't want to coach any more. Should they give up the title and take off the badge (if normally worn)?

[Erika]

I'm an evil dictator as a coach. Consequently I usually advise people to seek someone else. If you don't want to do what I say, when I say it and put as much work in as I expect it is better if you are coached by someone more patient.

I would strongly advise anyone to pick a coach or a mentor and stick with one person. They cannot teach you effectively if you insist on taking the advice of every dufus that walks through the door. One of our girls actually took the advice of a 9 year old on how to tune her bow. It took a while to work out where the nonsense she was spouting had come from.

There is no difference between getting bad advice from one person and getting mixed advice from 20 different people. At least if it was from one person you can identify where the bad advice came from and choose to find someone better.

[geoffretired]

From the logistical point of view, once beginners' is over, it's up to you to approach a coach- I believe the coaching etiquette is such that they will not approach you unless (a) you are doing something unsafe or (b) you are at a specific session for improvement, although no doubt Geoff or Meddler will correct me if I'm wrong here!

TPO you are right, to my way of translating what I was told when I was studying.
I think that is the spirit of the wording but it can be manipulated as you will know.It is possible for the coach to approach the archer and break the ice, leaving them to make the next move.
I believe the wording is there to get right away from the idea that the coach will step up to an archer and start telling them what they are doing wrong.That is bad practice, in my opinion; and bad manners in a way, too.
I see nothing wrong in the coach making the first move, so long as that move allows the archer to ask for help. The ball is still in their court, and rightly so. In my defence,it can be so difficult to resist offering help before being asked.

[Stylisht]

Originally Posted by Erika

I'm an evil dictator as a coach. Consequently I usually advise people to seek someone else. If you don't want to do what I say, when I say it and put as much work in as I expect it is better if you are coached by someone more patient.

I would strongly advise anyone to pick a coach or a mentor and stick with one person. They cannot teach you effectively if you insist on taking the advice of every dufus that walks through the door. One of our girls actually took the advice of a 9 year old on how to tune her bow. It took a while to work out where the nonsense she was spouting had come from.

There is no difference between getting bad advice from one person and getting mixed advice from 20 different people. At least if it was from one person you can identify where the bad advice came from and choose to find someone better.

I disagree that you should stick to only advice from one person.

I have one coach - but a lot of people who have given me advice, looked at aspects of my shot, and helped me mentally - and without the combination of all of them I would not be as confident in my shooting as I am today.

I just think you've got to choose carefully who you listen to, and make sure you evaluate what works best for you.

[Erika]

Originally Posted by Stylisht

I disagree that you should stick to only advice from one person.

See my first point. If I am coaching you, you aren't allowed to take any advice from anyone unless I approve it. There's too many overly helpful idiots with wonderful sounding advice that will mess up any work I'm trying to do wih you. The reason you have a coach (at least in the beginning) is to learn from them. What makes you think you know enough to discern right from wrong. I know plenty of people who can make a convincing argument for something totally wrong. That is why you should trust your coach. Run everything people tell you by them first. If you don't trust them they aren't your coach and you are wasting their time.

Too the original topic. In the absenece of a good coach or mentor, shoot lots of complete scored rounds. And keep constant records. Don't assume you shot badly until you've compared the score to your average. Work to improve your average.

[Jimster71]

At the moment, I am trying to improve groupings on the distance I am shooting and then will move onto the next distance. Really I'm still trying to find what works best for me to get the the best results and then I can work on replicating that on a shot to shot basis. I will have to get some coaches input though so I can veryify what I am doing from a technique point of view.

When I'm happy with groupings, then I'll start scoring rounds and keep a record of what I'm doing. I have been keeping a journal on here from when I started my beginners course, so hopefully that will chart my progress and maybe flag up things I need to address.