More arrows: quality or quantity?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by dino1300

In 'Total Archery' there is a study on the relative arrow speed of each shot if shooting slowly to quickly. Strangely the quick(ish) gap gave much more repeatable arrow speeds.

Yes, I remember this too. Though obviously they were using elite athletes for the study, so these folks would be shooting 200+ arrows every day AND doing KSL's general fitness programme (which is fairly demanding). Shooting off 6 arrows with little recovery time would be easy for them - something to pass the time in their tea-breaks, probably.

However it does bring up the question of "rhythm" between shots vs. recovery time. I'm guessing that as recovery time gets longer, rhythm gets harder to maintain, right? Which is more important?

[Stylisht]

Originally Posted by dino1300

Ahh the good old days of the amber gamblers!

I heard Steve Hallard used to wait for the amber light before shooting any of his arrows on the shorter distances of a FITA.

[Schme1440]

Originally Posted by Stylisht

I heard Steve Hallard used to wait for the amber light before shooting any of his arrows on the shorter distances of a FITA.

I have seen him do this. He is the reason I became an amber gambler. I never did it with more than one arrow out of choice.

[Raphe]

I've found the same problem since the outdoor season started. Indoors, I can shoot a Portsmouth without my bow arm getting tired at all (and repeatedly score higher in the second 'half' than the first), but since outdoor practice has started in earnest, its starting to hurt.

I'd tentatively decided:

1) shooting half dozen's instead of 3's gave less time for recovery, and

2) lower sights for longer distances meant the bow arm angle was different and it was putting more strain on.


I can see the advice above (10-20sec pauses) curing (1), but isnt the sight position the main determinant for bow arm angle in (2)? I can get the appropriate biomechanical posture, but if that angle means the arrow hits the green 30 yards in front of me, its no good..? Should I be bending from the waist or dropping a hip to adjust angle rather than raising/lowering the bow?

[napolienne]

Originally Posted by Raphe

I've found the same problem since the outdoor season started. Indoors, I can shoot a Portsmouth without my bow arm getting tired at all (and repeatedly score higher in the second 'half' than the first), but since outdoor practice has started in earnest, its starting to hurt.

I'd tentatively decided:

1) shooting half dozen's instead of 3's gave less time for recovery, and

2) lower sights for longer distances meant the bow arm angle was different and it was putting more strain on.


I can see the advice above (10-20sec pauses) curing (1), but isnt the sight position the main determinant for bow arm angle in (2)? I can get the appropriate biomechanical posture, but if that angle means the arrow hits the green 30 yards in front of me, its no good..? Should I be bending from the waist or dropping a hip to adjust angle rather than raising/lowering the bow?

Bend from the hips. It's called unit aiming.

[bowcoach]

Just thought I would chime in... It sounded to me like this was an endurance problem. It could also be related to improper shoulder position as suggested by dino1300. In any case, there is a simple test for the endurance aspect... You should be able to hold your bow at full draw for at least one minute. If you are unable to do so, you might want to consider some techniques to build strength.

There are several excersises which you can incorporate into a practice session in order to bolster your stamina. I won't go through all of them now, but if you think there may be an issue there, Id be glad to go into detail.

Also regarding dino1300's comments; It should also be mentioned that it is best to start this extension of the bow arm from the "set" position as many like to call it. It is important that the shoulder remains low from the start.

Best of luck,

Daniel
Archery Coach, USA

[Russ]

Hi Daniel, thanks for your post!

Originally Posted by bowcoach

You should be able to hold your bow at full draw for at least one minute.

Seriously? Then I would say endurance is - at least partly - also to blame. I can probably manage about 30 seconds... once (maybe a few times, but only with a very long recovery).

I do 10s draw / 10-20s rest reversals, and I'm looking into getting a formaster to help concentrate on the right muscles.

But if you have more suggestions (and a bit of time to kill writing them down) it would be most appreciated!

Cheers,
Russ

[bowcoach]

Hey Russ,

Being that i'm taking the rest of the week off from work I thought I'd help you out if I can. Luckily for me I also moderate my own archery coaching group, so a lot of the stuff I have written over the years is saved and available for situations such as this. Here goes:

To increase you endurance and stability I would recommend you try the following things:

When I coach I like to use what I call “focus areas,” that define what elements an archer is working on during any given practice session. I’ll send you a little more on this from my archery newsgroup, but the idea is that when you have a defined focus area, it allows you temporarily ignore other areas of form and execution which may or may not need attention.

So let’s get started:

Focus Area Goal: To increase strength and stability.

I borrowed these lessons from Don Rabska, who is an internationally recognized coach, technical expert, and the guy responsible for the Easton Tuning Guide that many of us archers have used at one time or another.

Double Draw Exercise

This exercise should be done in the beginning of your practice session at the range, and should be done on the same day that you do the Full Draw Exercises, and with a rest day in-between.

1. Get close to a target, roughly 10 meters.
2. Draw the bow with an arrow, but at about 4mm before you reach the clicker, let down for about 20 to 25cm, but without dropping your bow arm. Then draw straight back and complete the shot process. Try this 15-20 times.

Full Draw Exercise

This can be done as a supplement to your regular training, for example in the evening and at home. At least 2 hours after you range practice is recommended. However, You can also incorporate this into your regular practice sessions.

1. Stretch and warm up prior to starting exercise.
2. Draw your bow like you normally would, but without an arrow. Hold for 20 seconds, but maintain a very slow draw motion.
3. Rest in-between each draw for double the hold time.
4. Repeat this process maybe two or three times for the first session. With one rest day in-between each Full Draw Exercise session.
5. Gradually increase the length of time and the repetitions, so on the second day you are holding for 30 seconds, and completing 4-6 repetitions.
6. Third day 35 seconds, and completing 8-12 repetitions.
7. Fourth day 40 seconds, and completing 8-12 repetitions.
8. Fifth day 45 seconds, and completing 10-15 repetitions.
9. Sixth day 50 seconds, and completing 10-15 repetitions.
10. Seventh day 55 seconds, and completing 10-15 repetitions.
11. Eighth day 60 seconds, and completing 10-or more repetitions.

*Obviously you will want to adjust hold times to correspond with your progress level. But you get the idea. This should be done for approximately 1 – 3 months depending on your strength level. But afterwards you will be able to draw your bow pretty effortlessly.


Well, I hope that was of some help to you Russ.

Best of Luck,

Daniel... I think I'll have a couple

[TWIW]

Originally Posted by Whitehart

Schme makes an important point, many archers rush to shoot 3 or 6 arrows I was told that you should allow at least 20 seconds between arrows to let your muscles recover.

Also find a way of resting your bow arm between shots such as taking the weight on the stabiliser on the ground or the bottom limb tip on your foot otherwise you will be holding the weight of the bow all the time you are on the line not letting it recover.

Use the 10 or 20 second 'wait' constructively, especially when you're learning the new shoulder position. Try to visualise or 'feel' where your shoulders should be. Visualise moving or relaxing the shoulder into the right position. I am a firm believer in visualisation as it is a way of reinforcing your whole shooting experience in your subconscious. After all ultimately you are retraining your subconscious mind to move your shoulder into a new, stronger position for your shot.

Even after you've cracked the improved position continue to use the 'wait' period between shots to visualise your shot and relax.

Colin

[Mufti]

Originally Posted by Russ

. . . However it does bring up the question of "rhythm" between shots vs. recovery time. I'm guessing that as recovery time gets longer, rhythm gets harder to maintain, right? Which is more important?

It has been said many times that we should shoot each arrow indivdually and not as part of a group. There seems to be no place for rhythm in that arguement.
We must therefore not concentrate on the odd arrow that we shoot out of the 3 or 6 in an end, "My second arrow always goes left" or somesuch argument doesn't hold water, each one must be shot as equally (and perfectly) as the previous and subsequent ones.