Archery isn't taken seriously.... But do ARCHERS take it seriously?

[Wrexham Exile]

Originally Posted by napolienne

I agree, I just wouldn't want to see less experienced archers stuck in an entirely seperate tier of competition when they benefit so much by competition contact with the best archers. Retaining some high status open shoots would proabably get around this - but I'm not sure how you could encourage the best archers to turn up if they have a seperate tour of their own.

QFT

thats why i like it as it is now.

of course archery is taken seriously - it has to be as it could be dangerous.

but as it is now you get the top mixing with the new to the sport - and i think that is quite unique.

[Schme1440]

Originally Posted by napolienne

I agree, I just wouldn't want to see less experienced archers stuck in an entirely seperate tier of competition when they benefit so much by competition contact with the best archers. Retaining some high status open shoots would proabably get around this - but I'm not sure how you could encourage the best archers to turn up if they have a seperate tour of their own.

This is all true. I think the current set up is ok to be honest. if people want to get better they need to travel to the big shoots. I will be traveling to at least 3 shoots this year but wish to do more next year. I need to do more but I dont have the funds to do all the traveling.

[moo-mop]

Archery is my hobby - not my life, I am not about to shoot 9000 arrows a month, as some are asked to do. But within that it is nonetheless a serious hobby of mine.

Personally (and I do mean personally, this is not at all derogatory to those who have made this incredible sacrifice and whom I admire incredibly) if I were to take a sport seriously and make it my life I would have been putting the effort into a sport I could at least try to make a life out of, golf probably.

As to restricted entry competitions: there are plenty already: inter-county matches, the masters, the selection shoots for the national team etc. If you want to enter selective shoots then you need to aim higher .
I find it sad when I go to the masters and there aren't many h2h rounds as there are only 20 or so gents recurve, I see no need to extend this to other premier events. The premier events/large FITAs tend to have higher level archers in cos these keen ones do get the forms in early anyway - I make damn sure I am the first come first served if I really want to go to any particular shoot. I don't mind who else is there - a WRS FITA event is just that, done to the same rules wherever it is shot and whoever shoots in it.
"the best archers to turn up if they have a seperate tour of their own." - yes this is already the case, you won't often find our national level shooters at too many of the UK FITA stars, they are off on their own tour at a higher level.

Coaching: I'm not one for judging on the basis of a certificate saying what level the coach is at, I judge it on my own opinion of the coaching and help I receive, one of the reasons I don't have a coach no doubt! The coaching system is bound to be a highly complex and emotive issue, and I'm not about to comment until I decide to stop competitive archery and take the step into coaching.

[hypertigger]

i have to agree with moo-mop, wrt to archery being a hobby. i'd like to make it my life, but it'll never pay as well as my current job (and when i'm chartered, it'll be even easier to earn more), or give me a good pension. so it'll have to be a serious hobby.

and i do take it seriously. those who know me know how hard i'm working (gym yoga, cycling etc etc), and how much progress i've made in the past 10 months, where i want to go, and my attitude to things.

[Rik]

It's interesting that there seems to be an equation of "taking it seriously" with "being good". There's no reason why someone taking it seriously couldn't be a mediocre archer, while someone good might be doing it just for laughs.

I've seen the road of "many prizes for classification bands" it seems to be the norm (judging by the competitions I've been to so far) in Northern Ireland.
It leads to very long prize givings and a shortage of prizes in the less well populated classifications. You only stand a chance of getting a 3rd place medal, if you fall into (for example) D/E class indoors. It's also strange to watch people in one band win, with scores higher than the people in a higher band... Especially when there aren't any "overall" prizes presented...

[Mistake]

Originally Posted by Jimster71

I think competitions restricted by class could be a good idea. It would give some people the impetus to improve their classification in order to attend the more select competitions.

Less skilled archers could enter competitions for their class and know they have a chance of winning something instead of ending up way down the rankings.

Bromyard Bowman already do a D's and down shoot (D being the theoretical average for indoor archery), which is very successful, and also a very relaxed shoot, and SAMPAA hand out classification medals for C,D and E classes (or they did last time i shot the open indoor)

However, if you say "all NRS FITA's are closed to everyone but MB and above" then there arn't going to be as many MB's coming up as MB scores have to be shot at an open competition on either a York/ Hereford or a FITA

Its good that there are closed shoots such as the masters, because it gives archers something to aim for (if they want to get there), but there needs to be more pro level coaching to get there (thinking county coaches and up here)

[BobCat]

Originally Posted by Kae

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For example:[list=1][*]Coaches certificates being harder to gain and maintain - surely if we are to improve as a sport, this has to be the case?

Kae still got top get my head round the rest of the questions but this one sticks out like a wotsit

No way should it be the case. There should be a carefully graduated coaching certificate scale that refelects the different levels of the hobby / sport.

From those in the club who just want to put on have a go days and help at beginners couses through running beginners / improvers courses all the way to Olympic coaches.

Otherwise you leave the lower end of the sport behind and end up with and old experienced sport with no grass roots

They should not get harder year on year and the amount of time to achive and maintain should reflect the level of useage they will get.

The lowest level of coach described above will probable help out maybe once per year ie GNAS leaders, what ever happened to them? they are Archers who coach now and then.

The more experienced coaches then it is the coaching and then the Shooting. These from my limited reading GNAS appear to concentrate on and have a better handle on.

Soapbox dismounted and foot put back in mouth

[Meddler]

Originally Posted by BobCat

There should be a carefully graduated coaching certificate scale that refelects the different levels of the hobby / sport.

From those in the club who just want to put on have a go days and help at beginners couses through running beginners / improvers courses all the way to Olympic coaches.

Guess what?

It's on its way..

Level 1 is the have a go / beginners course type level.
Level 2 is the Club Coach level

Levels 3 and 4 are getting into the serious Coaching levels...

The major problem is that most Coaches don't want to go above Level 2, because of the extra work that has to be put into it. Thats not to say that the Level 1 Coach can't Coach up to GMB level - but if they are doing the job why don't they upgrade to that level? It would be a truer reflection of their ability. And with the new UKCC once you get to Level 3 you can concentrate on Development (ie Coach Education etc) or go onto Performance.

UKCC Level 1 Coaches aren't trained to a high standard, in any sport. Level 2 Coaches are more able to think on their feet, but if you want the more advanced levels of Coaching, then you need a Level 3 or Level 4 Coach. Level 5 Coaches will be preparing National Standards and national Coaching strategies..

Iain.

[BobCat]

Originally Posted by Meddler

Guess what?

It's on its way..

Not quite
There also needs to be a level 0?

The commitment for a level 1 coach are, whists not high still need a degree of determination. Just look at the items that have to be covered in 3 year to get the CPD.

I would suggest that there are a number of Archers in the country who want to receive formal "education" in coaching to be able to and have the confidence to assist with people improving (coach) to a limited extent, but getting into the current structure is too onerous. OK they are probable doing now and "helping" other archers but surely they would benefit from some training.

[cliveanne]

Originally Posted by Meddler

Guess what?

It's on its way..

Level 1 is the have a go / beginners course type level.
Level 2 is the Club Coach level

Levels 3 and 4 are getting into the serious Coaching levels...

The major problem is that most Coaches don't want to go above Level 2, because of the extra work that has to be put into it. Thats not to say that the Level 1 Coach can't Coach up to GMB level - but if they are doing the job why don't they upgrade to that level? It would be a truer reflection of their ability. And with the new UKCC once you get to Level 3 you can concentrate on Development (ie Coach Education etc) or go onto Performance.

UKCC Level 1 Coaches aren't trained to a high standard, in any sport. Level 2 Coaches are more able to think on their feet, but if you want the more advanced levels of Coaching, then you need a Level 3 or Level 4 Coach. Level 5 Coaches will be preparing National Standards and national Coaching strategies..

Iain.

I look at myself as a level one & three quarters, just waitng for the last bit of paper to arive but I'm not bothered about that. I do a lot of beginners courses in the year, club & private. I take the sport seriously, but not enough to have to travel all over the place to help out. My archery is for my enjoyment, that is what I take seriously. I don't like the committee meetings where words are spoken, but nothing is said. I want to shoot, help if needed & go home. I do a fair bit of none shooting at the club, as Equipment officer I have to...That is another aspect of a serious archer.