Helix bow reaction

[N.Vodden]

Hi everybody!

i recently upgraded to a Hoyt Helix from my old W&W Winstar II. Its a gorgeous bow to shoot but im finding the shot reaction a little too stable compared to the winstar.

Ive added an extra weight on the left rod to counter the weight of the sight/tec and thats balanced fine, but even after adding 3 weights to the longrod it doesnt roll as im used to. After the shot it just droops slightly, even with a completely open hand and no grip whatsoever it just slowly rolls. I was after a little more reactive roll without having to add too much more mass to the bow because its a little heavy as it is.

just to clarify, my stabiliser setup is.....

4" cartel extender
cartel fixed V bar.
28" cartel longrod with 3 extra end weights and A-Bomb doinker.
2 x 10" short cartel rods with dinky doinker, 1 extra weight on left side.


what changes would get the best change to the bow reaction without adding the most mass? im thinking longer extender, shorter twins, maybe a top rod/weight if that would make a diff?


any advice would be very much appreciated!!

thanks in advance!

V.

[SimonW]

I found the same thing when I went from my Avalon to Helix.

It's the only reason I changed to the Inno.

I couldn't get the bow to work (dynamically move after the shot) the way I wanted. I tried most things but just sticking more weight on the long rod was the best. However, this makes the bow too dynamic (you're fighting the bow at full draw as it wants to tip forwards).

You'll notice quite a few of the GB squad shooting the Nexus at the moment ......

Simon

[geoffretired]

Hi V,
I've lost track with recurve bows but it seems to me that your new bow has a CoG that is further back than the older bow.When I had my KG1 with V-bars it was stable with no roll. If I took off the short rods, they fitted in the front on the limb bolts.That made it roll quickly, which I liked.

[Malcy]

It could be due to the grip being that little bit further forward, it perhaps evens out the front to back weight balance. Also, perhaps with you adding extra weight to the Short Rod you will have done more to stop it dropping?

I have a Helix and noticed it doesn't drop after the shot like other bows, it still shoots way better than I do though so I don't worry about it.

[Ffish]

Hmmm, I think I’d have to disagree. Since getting my Helix (thank you Simon!) I’ve found it incredibly stable in the hand, both on the draw and at full draw, and it rolls forward naturally and comfortably once the shot is completed, shot after shot after shot. I’ve got a full Beiter set up as the stabilisers (30” long rod with end cap, 4” extender, and twins), but I also have a W&W Fomax damper short rod in the top hole on the front of the riser as well – I suspect this is adding the necessary weight to make the bow roll as I follow through.

The Loesch grip it has is ever so slightly deeper than the standard Hoyt grip too, so this is possibly changing the C of G to allow it to move after the shot.

Try experimenting with a short rod in the top hole, maybe that’ll change the dynamics of the bow.

[Allvyn]

Originally Posted by Ffish

Hmmm, I think I’d have to disagree. Since getting my Helix (thank you Simon!) I’ve found it incredibly stable in the hand, both on the draw and at full draw, and it rolls forward naturally and comfortably once the shot is completed, shot after shot after shot. I’ve got a full Beiter set up as the stabilisers (30” long rod with end cap, 4” extender, and twins), but I also have a W&W Fomax damper short rod in the top hole on the front of the riser as well – I suspect this is adding the necessary weight to make the bow roll as I follow through.

The Loesch grip it has is ever so slightly deeper than the standard Hoyt grip too, so this is possibly changing the C of G to allow it to move after the shot.

Try experimenting with a short rod in the top hole, maybe that’ll change the dynamics of the bow.

I have to agree with Ffish on this one. My Helix drops and rolls naturally after every shot without fail. Incredibly stable on every shot and the bow reaction in the world is the best IMO. My stabilizer set up consists of a 4" aluminium extender, 10" twins, fixed V-Bar, 25" X10 long rod+A bomb doinker+3oz of end weight in the form of another aluminium extender and a small Cartel top rod damper.

[Russ]

I found I had a similar problem with my Eclipse (makes a sorry comparison to the Helix, but it might balance the same way, even if it's a lighter handle).

My solution (mostly through trial and error) was to:
- switch the 4" extender for a 5" one (I also use Cartel rods)
- get a "Back Doinker" and a small weight, and screw it into the old 4" extender to make a kind of top rod (the W&W Fomax dampener would be a more elegant solution, but also more expensive)

It was especially the addition of the top-rod that got the "roll" where I wanted it. Using the 4" extender also got the weight farther forward, which meant I could make it lighter and get the same effect.

Hope this helps!

[N.Vodden]

thanks for all the advice, some good points to have a think about. i was going to head up the field this afternoon for some shooting ( nice weather! woohoo! ) so i'll have a play around with the rods and try putting one in the top to see how she acts.

oh yeah, whoever sorted out the typo in the thread title... you have my thanks

[Schme1440]

Have had a helix for coming up to a year. I suggest a longer extender. I use 10 sides on a 6" extender and maybe reduce the weight on the back. if you use doinkers on the sides take them off to bring the weight forward. I also have a top weight of 2 standard weights on the top. You just need to bring the weight forward not more. Also a bit on the top limb pocket helps as well. If im shooting well mine spins like a top.

[N.Vodden]

I had a play around and fitted one of the rods in the top and i like the way it handled, added a bit of the spin i was looking for, so that coupled with taking the weight forwards may well be exactly what im after.

Thanks for the advice Schme, i'll see about getting a 6" extender... and ill recycle the old 4" into the top pocket with one of the dinky doinkers and weight on it.. instand bodgejob fomax

incidentally, what brand is your 6" extender?