Questions -

[DivingBirdie]

Another one of those questions...

This is what I found in Saggi.

As we don't have a coach now, and nobody wants to shoot this way.. I've got some problems. I'm doing the BEST open stance, trying my best to follow BEST.
I usually twist my bowarm all the way inwards, locking it.

I tried my best to emulate this alignment at training today and ended up with a badly bruised bow arm. What went wrong? What are the details I have to look into with this style?

Does the bowarm remain static without and movement until after the shot?

I'm a LH Archer. My shots pretty much go center if I use a Parallel Stance. My arrows will stray to the LEFT (but grouped) if I use an Open Stance.

My scores have been going downhill ever since I read Total Archery and tried to follow its teachings.

Oh, if anything... I'm in Standard (No Stabiliser, no fancy sights, no live plunger, only wooden limbs, dacron etc). I feel it is necessary to achieve a good level of consistency before I upgrade..

[WhitehartFB]

I think you would benefit from a longrod at least, currently your bows reaction after the shot will not be rolling forwards hence hitting your arm.

You can always put your questions direct to KL at KSL International Archery there is a lot of information on the site to help followers of the book.

Good luck following the book, personally I think it is very hard to follow without a coach to help, even in the States KL spends a lot of time teaching coaches just to understand the basic principles.

[Jerry Tee]

On most target bows these days you are wasting your time without a flipper rest, long rod and button. Next get your self a finger sling. If you are gripping the bow this can affect how position your had and thus your fore arm alignment. The trouble with matchstick diagrams is they over simplify that diagram does not even show the elbow so how are you supposed to know how to hold it? Do not lock the elbow let it retain a small bend.
I like to keep my bow arm up until the shot is well gone. I find it helps to keep the bow arm steady during the shot

[DivingBirdie]

I've been told that 'form' is most essential when shooting Standard.
I've been using a finger sling ever since I got my bow, and am definitely not gripping it.

[thewayitwas]

Originally Posted by DivingBirdie

Another one of those questions...

This is what I found in Saggi.

As we don't have a coach now, and nobody wants to shoot this way.. I've got some problems. I'm doing the BEST open stance, trying my best to follow BEST.
I usually twist my bowarm all the way inwards, locking it.

I tried my best to emulate this alignment at training today and ended up with a badly bruised bow arm. What went wrong? What are the details I have to look into with this style?

Does the bowarm remain static without and movement until after the shot?

I'm a LH Archer. My shots pretty much go center if I use a Parallel Stance. My arrows will stray to the LEFT (but grouped) if I use an Open Stance.

My scores have been going downhill ever since I read Total Archery and tried to follow its teachings.

Oh, if anything... I'm in Standard (No Stabiliser, no fancy sights, no live plunger, only wooden limbs, dacron etc). I feel it is necessary to achieve a good level of consistency before I upgrade..

OK a few questions:

1. Why did you change your style?
2. What did you feel was wrong with the way you were shooting?
3. Why have you moved to an open stance? Do you have a clearance problem?

Now to answer some of your questions:

1. Bow arm - Don't twist it all the way in because then you will push the elbow intot he line of the string (as you have found out to youer cost). Keep your arm in as natural position as possible and you should find that your inner elbow will be almost vertical and well out of the way of the string. Also keep the whole arm relaxed, don't lock it, just hold it naturally straight and let the bones maintain the line of the arm and hold the elbow stable.

2. Talking about an open stance - How 'open' is it? Have you aligned yourself or just set an arbitary stance with your left foot further forward than your right? Too open a stance will put additional strain on your lower back as you try to come into the line of the shot. This could cause a reaction when the shot is executed in that the upper body will attempt to swing back into line with the hips. If this happens there is likely to be a horizontal deflection of your arrows.

3. You have said that the your scores have deteriorated since attempting this style. How have your groups changed?

Finally the diagram causes me some concern. It seems to advocate the drawing elbow INSIDE the line of the shot, something I think few archers could emulate. Furthermore it does not show the vertical alignment of the arms to the shot and this I feel is as or even more important. I would be more concerned with working on getting good back alignment and use of the back to maintain the shot.

Colin

[DivingBirdie]

Originally Posted by thewayitwas

OK a few questions:

1. Why did you change your style?
2. What did you feel was wrong with the way you were shooting?
3. Why have you moved to an open stance? Do you have a clearance problem?

Now to answer some of your questions:

1. Bow arm - Don't twist it all the way in because then you will push the elbow intot he line of the string (as you have found out to youer cost). Keep your arm in as natural position as possible and you should find that your inner elbow will be almost vertical and well out of the way of the string. Also keep the whole arm relaxed, don't lock it, just hold it naturally straight and let the bones maintain the line of the arm and hold the elbow stable.

2. Talking about an open stance - How 'open' is it? Have you aligned yourself or just set an arbitary stance with your left foot further forward than your right? Too open a stance will put additional strain on your lower back as you try to come into the line of the shot. This could cause a reaction when the shot is executed in that the upper body will attempt to swing back into line with the hips. If this happens there is likely to be a horizontal deflection of your arrows.

3. You have said that the your scores have deteriorated since attempting this style. How have your groups changed?

Finally the diagram causes me some concern. It seems to advocate the drawing elbow INSIDE the line of the shot, something I think few archers could emulate. Furthermore it does not show the vertical alignment of the arms to the shot and this I feel is as or even more important. I would be more concerned with working on getting good back alignment and use of the back to maintain the shot.

Colin

I started Archery only 4 months ago (joined the school's club), and began real shooting 3 months ago (since I bought my Nexus), I pretty much shot the way I felt like, no particular technique or style, simply the way I felt like it (but of course, based on the basics). I was pretty consistent in my 'bad' form though.

My stance is as KSL's Total Archery.

I think the scores went down because there is just too many steps I have to take note of and I lose consistency.

Archery, ah... The complexity of simplicity.

[thewayitwas]

Originally Posted by DivingBirdie

I started Archery only 4 months ago (joined the school's club), and began real shooting 3 months ago (since I bought my Nexus), I pretty much shot the way I felt like, no particular technique or style, simply the way I felt like it (but of course, based on the basics). I was pretty consistent in my 'bad' form though.

My stance is as KSL's Total Archery.

I think the scores went down because there is just too many steps I have to take note of and I lose consistency.

Archery, ah... The complexity of simplicity.

I think you are trying to get too complex too early. You are still developing: I doubt if your form has properly developed and your drawlength is almost still growing as your strength and form develops. When you say you were "pretty consistent" how consistent? What were your average scores?

Why do you think your form was (is) bad? I assume that you are referring to the basic form you were taught on the beginner's course? If so and you were well taught with a good anchor under the chin and you have some sensation of the using your back during the shot I would have advised you to stay with the form you were taught because it could have quite easily taken you to 1st Class.

I see you are shooting with a bow sling and that is a good thing as long as you have enough confidence with is so you are not tempted to grip or snatch the bow on loose. Personally I can't use finger slings and prefer a bow sling that goes round the riser and hooks onto my wrist. This allows me to tuck my fingers out of the way of the riser and prevents me from snatching at the bow. I also agree that a longrod would be beneficial as it would add stability to your shot.

My advice would be to leave the KSL method alone for now. Except in that the concept of achieving good alignment with the proper use of the back and relaxed arms would be a good area to work on. As for the actual mechanics of the draw - continue with what you are doing (are you using a T-Draw?), and maintaining a straight, in-line hand and forearm with as little tension in it as possible. To draw the bow think about rotating the shoulder joint to bring the arm back and in-line with the arrow at full draw; this will help you get that good alignment and bring your back into play both in the draw and during the aim/loose.

[DivingBirdie]

I can always shoot with a full setup, (live button, stabilisers, fast flight, carbon arrows etc), but the class I'm shooting at doesn't allow that. I hope to stay in this class until I can hit a good 630+/720 (You shoot at 30m/50m at 122cm in this class)

The groupings are pretty okay, 9/10 at 30m and 8/9/10 at 50m.

You have been most helpful!
What exactly is a T-Draw?

[thewayitwas]

Originally Posted by DivingBirdie

I can always shoot with a full setup, (live button, stabilisers, fast flight, carbon arrows etc), but the class I'm shooting at doesn't allow that. I hope to stay in this class until I can hit a good 630+/720 (You shoot at 30m/50m at 122cm in this class)

The groupings are pretty okay, 9/10 at 30m and 8/9/10 at 50m.

You have been most helpful!
What exactly is a T-Draw?

Raise bow to horizontal, Take up string, draw bow back to the anchor.

Stick with your chosen discipline. Your groups look good to me. No need to change to all the paraphinalia that other target archers use if you don't want to.

[Erika]

That diagram is actually out of alignment unless it is a post shot pic. The draw elbow should be just over the line for anchor and hit the line as the clicker goes off. If your elbow at anchor is on that line or past it you are over drawing. this will cause you to hit your arm.

how close to the line the front shoulder is is not something that the inflexible can do right away and will take time to get right. if you try and force it, your front shoulder will come up and you will likely hit your arm.

Hitting your forearm a little is going to happen with a tight alignment anyway... but there are bruises and there are bruises.

And that overhead diagram means nothing if your side and back views aren't also correct.