Riser subjectivity.

[BorderBows]

In an Attempt to clarify what a riser feels like id like to ask a few questions for feedback.
What id like to see is a small database of riser measurments.
If you have a riser thats not listed in a post here, then feel free to add it.

In short, we can compile a list of risers so that people can make a informed idea as to what riser to try next. (I want one more like Bla-Bla, as i think it might be better for me. rather than having to try all of them)
All Naked risers. no pungers/ stabilisers buttons ect.

I'll explain how to measure each of these.
The numbers equate to each measurment below.

1)Centre of the limb bolt of the respective limb end, to the front of the arrow shelf. (in mm)
This will approximatly measure if the riser has a high grip location or low. Meaning it effects how you like to hold the grip.

2)Put your finger in the throat of the grip and balance the riser. either top heavy of bottom heavy.
this will effect how the bow feels when your holding it without drawing it.
This also has a small feeling change durning the shot cycle. This is also effected by the postion of the grip. but its another issue to measure.

3)Mass of riser (grams)
Heavy riser/light riser is one that has many opinions.


4) Draw an imaginery straight line from the end of each limb pocket (say with a ruler), and measure the distance from the front of the riser to this line. (in mm)
This will effect the stability of the bow. the bigger this measurement is, the more stable the bow should be, the less it is, the more stress the bow is under, the more performance you will get in your arrow. (In a basic form)

5)Centre of limb bolt to centre of limb bolt. (in mm)
This will show the kind of fit the riser has to its limbs. The closer the bolt is to the dovetail without displacing the detent out of its position the tighter the limb fit will be. riser with larger than most will be tighter.

...........Answers......

Make/Model
1)Measurment to the top of the arrow shelf:
a)top:
b)Bottom:

2)Centre of Gravity:

3)Weight

4)Deflex of riser

5) Centre to centre




If any one measures their riser differently to the measurements given, then please ask for a re-measurement by way of a new post.


Hope this sounds like fun... and a good common resource for all

[BorderBows]

Lets say there are 10 aspects that narrow down the feel of a riser.

Now lets say that 8 of them are measurable and 2 are subjective.
If you dont start narrowing down the feel of the 8 other aspects then it will always be a subjective subject that no one will be able to help anyone with.

I can garentee that 4 out of the 5 measurements above can be done at home without the aid of accelerometers, and vibration measurment equipment, let alone any kind of flex/stress testing needed to measure the other charachteristics of a riser, how is anyone going to start to say what they like about a riser and what they dont!
These aspects of Riser design give destinct shooting characteristics. Whether you rate them or not, If no one knows what the max/min values are how are they supposed to be able to say what they like and what they dont about a partiular riser other than "WOW MAN thats just a Feeling".
Message boards like this dont thrive on subjectivity...
AT last folks can say, my riser is bottom heavy an i like the way its more reflexed. How many archers know how reflexed their riser is compaired to others on the market?

[ironmonkey]

hmm
i have similar scepticism to sp220 about the use of such measurements

eg. the perpendicular length from front of ledge to the line between the limb pockets just depends on the thickness of grip section; no risers actually have a significant variation from normal geometry in this respect, furthermore, mass distribution is more important than absolute mass for feeling (eg. the Axis has a great mass distribution but the Aerotec's is cack)

still i'll kick things off with these two;

Samick Ultra
1- a) 235
b) 275
2- Slightly top heavy
3- 1330
4- 86mm
5- 498

W&W Infinite
1- a) 235
b) 273
2- neutral balance
3- 1320
4- 86
5- 497

you may notice that the two risers are nearly identical in many respects despite having significantly different feels to shoot. also any differences are probably within the errors of my measurements anyway (+/-1mm-ish)
the only riser that may deviate significantly from measurements like this are a Fiberbow or a 'Variable'.

i hope this is what you want

[BorderBows]

Ive started this thread as a start to tyr to highlight some of the differences in risers.
Im not interested if you like one or the other. Im trying to start a list, so that folks can look for a particular style of riser. Look for a particular concept. Maybe test a personal theory, but purchasing two extream risers and shooting both.

So far we have two bows, both of similar reflex, except one is top heavy although its longer on the bottom.
You might perfer one but im not asking for that, as everyone knows that everyone likes a different riser feel.

Yes you are correct about the thickness of the riser, if you want we can add thickness of grip, front face to throat of grip?

[ironmonkey]

might it be more useful to measure the distance from the aforementioned line between limb pocket edges, and the THROAT of the grip?;

then we can ignore variance of thickness of grip sections between risers, but still retain a measurement of the degree of deflex/reflex

i really like to see if anyone can get some risers on here that really vary significantly from those listed already..
clearly risers that have nearly identical geometry and mass can still have dramatically different feels on the shot

[BorderBows]

Originally Posted by BorderBows

Yes you are correct about the thickness of the riser, if you want we can add thickness of grip, front face to throat of grip?

Ironmonkey, As i said, yeah, your right. You can deduce the reflex form this.
I was just thinking for ease of measurment the front face would be easier to measure.... just thinking out loud here...

[Mufti]

Fibrebow . . . or even Fiberbow!

1) to arrow shelf: top 235 bottom 275
to throat of grip:top 265 bottom 250

2) Top heavy, but with sight holder attached. Suspect it is still top heavy without attachments

3) As per sales blurb - just under 600grams

4) 45 to throat of grip, 95 to front of bow

5) 487.5 (ish)

Much of the stability can be related to the rake of the limbs (adjustable tiller and poundage).

[pHz]

first day of the school holidays and im already bored enough to strip my riser down and get the tape measure out !

spigarelli VBS 2001 - naked except for grip and arrow rest



(measurements 1a / 1b / 5 all taken following the curve of the riser rather than in a totally straight line)

1a - 241mm
1b - 279mm

2 - balances perfectly (maybe 1 or 2 mm lower at the bottom end but no more)

3 - 1476g (including grip and spig ZT rest - manufacturers stated weight is 1380g)

4 - 96mm at the widest point (50mm to throat of grip)

5 - 520mm

slainte rob

[bobnodge]

Hi I make my own wooden risers to fit my drawlengh of 30in, i am currently using a riser with measurements as below:
1. centre limb bolt to arrow shelf (upper) 170mm
lower 235mm
2. slightly top heavy
3.Weight 770g
4. no limb pocket I am currently using samick deermaster limbs 60lb @ 28"
This gives me a draw weight of 70lbs @ 30"
o/all lengh of riser 520mm
I find this gives me a nice smooth draw with very little stacking.
Hope this is what you had in mind.