Compare 66inch limbs to 68inch limbs

[archer_thom]

Originally Posted by ASW1973

The advantage with shorter limbs is reputedly they recover to their normal position faster so you get abit more speed. This does however make them less forgiving.

No!They are faster because you bend a different part of the limb. no less forgiving.

The other apparent advantage is they gain they weight more rapidly when you are drawing, so you may get an extra Lb closer to its max draw with the same draw length - I'm not sure about this though.

Again no! The draw weight for a set of limbs on a 2 inch shorter riser will be 2lbs increase across the whole of the draw curve, and they will draw further before stacking occurs compared to a shorter set of limbs on a long riser

There was an interesting discussion about compound forgiveness somewhere, the conclusion being that what really affected it was the distance between the grip and the end of the limb tip at full draw. Would that imply greater forgiveness for a shorter limb that will probably bend further?

[archer_thom]

Originally Posted by BorderBows

its so to do with the % difference in effect.
longer working limbs on longer bows have longer strings, all this extra length means a 1/4" delay in release on the bottom finger or top, makes less effect on the stress levels on a less stressed longer limb.

take a extream example, lets take a 80" longbow. and a 50" where the whole bow is the limb. Then the string is 2" shorter then the bow and lets look at half the bow as the other half does the same.
40+39=79"
vs
25+24=49"
That is the amount of moving parts to make the 28" of draw. lets say you pull the bottom limb 1/4" more than the top.
the 1/4 is considerable more of a jump towards stack on a short bow, than the long bow, so the stress levels will make the limbs work more differently in the short bow than the long, making the bow less balanced for the same amout of error...
its getting late for that kind of explanaition, hope it came out ok...




thats stressing the shorter bow

So it would affect the forgiveness to hand pressure point more than side-side after the release?

[BorderBows]

Originally Posted by ASW1973

The advantage with shorter limbs is reputedly they recover to their normal position faster so you get abit more speed. This does however make them less forgiving.

No!They are faster because you bend a different part of the limb. no less forgiving.

The other apparent advantage is they gain they weight more rapidly when you are drawing, so you may get an extra Lb closer to its max draw with the same draw length - I'm not sure about this though.

Again no! The draw weight for a set of limbs on a 2 inch shorter riser will be 2lbs increase across the whole of the draw curve, and they will draw further before stacking occurs compared to a shorter set of limbs on a long riser

Dont take this the wrong way, its all a very complex subject and text is not a good meduim for expressing things!

I have tried to explain our thinkings on the matters you raised point by point

In our opinion fast limbs dont make them unstable. The mass of the limb is lighter making them faster. the speed of recovery is stbilised by appropreate use of materials.


The shorter limbs get there power in the same way as long limbs. in our limbs, mostly from the say 15% from the fadeout.


short limbs and long limbs all gain about 2lbs per inch in draw weight at target bow weights. irrespective of bow lenght.
To go from 8" brace hight to 28" makes 20" of travel, making 40lbs/20" approx.

The design of the limb would give a draw force curve, fluctuating from 2lbs to the inch by small amounts. and noticibly more past the stacking point.
Stacking is a point of string anlges.
shorter limbs will change string anlges quicker, to become wider angles quiker, putting the limbs into its stack region quiker, but 40lbs at 28" is 40@28irrespective of bow or limb length. And to get to 40lbs in 28" is just that. With a 26" draw on a 68" bow you will not start to get near the vally of the draw curve.
As for the 2lb increase on a shorter riser, this is due to the shorter leaverage ratio on the same spring, means you have to work harder to get it to move, the spring hasnt changed it still needs the same force to move it, you are just using a bigger leaver to get it to appear easier to pull.
but stacking occurs at a set string angle from the limb tip, this happens earler on short bows. Long limbs help defend this.

Dont mistake short bows for short limbs. Short limbs have less mass in there working part of the limb, and so are faster.

Guys with long draws dont really need the speed advantage as much as the short draws. Thats why we have a 72" limb, as the energy gained from the extra draw length might as well be used as stability and smoothness of draw with the longer working limb.

[BorderBows]

Originally Posted by archer_thom

So it would affect the forgiveness to hand pressure point more than side-side after the release?

In a simple note, it would help reduce all things that tiller effects.
High low grip pressure difference
Late release on bottom finger or top offsetting tiller.

This is all inline with the bow.

This is our theory and is open to discussion...

Good form and good techneque will make up for these discrepancies and allow an archer to take advantage of the extra speed of a shorter bow. as we are talking small differences.
Improved sightmarks and better stability are both benefits, which comes down to personal preference and also which one you suffereing from most.
if your shooting a 28lb bow, then no matter how stable you are you will still struggle with longer shots.
if you shoot a 50lb bow then your ok for power, now just trade it for stability in the choice of bow you have.

The next question is are short limbs that much faster. Short limbs get into stack quiker. This means least efficent use of energy. This means that having too short a limb will slow you down if your over drawing it. but also short limbs are designed for shorter draw lengths which have less stored energy. So dont be fooled into thinking short is good. Its only good if you have the right draw length. Long limbs are smoother, and more stable, if you dont lack the power in either lbs or " of draw then dont settle for short limbs it just makes your bow easer of off balance

For target setups

our 72" are good for 31-34"
70" are 29-32"
68" are 27-30"
66" are 25-27"
Thats on a 25" riser.

lets take a guess at a 23" riser
70" bow would go to 30-33"
68" would be 28"-31"
66" would be 26" - 28"
64" would be 24"-26"
on a 23" riser a 70" bow would be a 72" limb so size these appropreatly

This is bacuase the limb angle is defended by the lenght of the working limb.
longer limbs should be more forgiving, as this off balance is less % of the working bow! So why not have a 23" riser if you not struggling with longer shots? this is just a question...

remember ignore the riser in the maths to determin the working bow. its only the limbs and string that come back to full draw.
see where we are heading with this...

[pHz]

Originally Posted by BorderBows

remember ignore the riser in the maths to determin the working bow. its only the limbs and string that come back to full draw.
see where we are heading with this...

... towards the new border riser being a 23" one ?

slainte rob

[krela]

Based purely on my experience of switching from medium limbs on a 25" riser to short limbs on a 25" riser I have noticed that my sight marks have gone up significantly (3cm at 80yds) and I can't say I've noticed my bow being any less forgiving.

I put this down to the fact that at my short draw length I wasn't working the tips of the medium (68" bow) limbs very much so getting less power out of them than I am out of similarly weighted short (66" bow) limbs. This echos what sid is saying above, I took this advice to get shorter limbs while on the phone to Sid the elder and it's worked a treat

On the longer limbs I couldn't hit 100 yards without aiming into the sky (even with inverted sights), with the short limbs I can hit 100 yards comfortably without any noticeable change in draw weight and I've dropped my handicap by 8 points or so since the change.

As I say there are many variables, but for me the move from a 68" bow to a 66" bow drawing to 27" was a very positive one.

[King Custard]

Any chance I could borrow/ purloin your limbs, Krela....old mate?
Borders - winnex...Borders- winnex.....
40lb...66 inch..
Borders- winnex??

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...
(Beginning to wish I hadn't just walked out on my dayjob, saluting the MD in Agincourt style)

[krela]

No you can't have my limbs, I need them to shoot

The way I see it I would much rather give my business to local companies rather than international suppliers. It's as simple as that really.

Oh, and borders limbs and customer service are awesome too, which helps.

[archer_thom]

Originally Posted by krela

Based purely on my experience of switching from medium limbs on a 25" riser to short limbs on a 25" riser I have noticed that my sight marks have gone up significantly (3cm at 80yds) and I can't say I've noticed my bow being any less forgiving.

I put this down to the fact that at my short draw length I wasn't working the tips of the medium (68" bow) limbs very much so getting less power out of them than I am out of similarly weighted short (66" bow) limbs. This echos what sid is saying above, I took this advice to get shorter limbs while on the phone to Sid the elder and it's worked a treat

On the longer limbs I couldn't hit 100 yards without aiming into the sky (even with inverted sights), with the short limbs I can hit 100 yards comfortably without any noticeable change in draw weight and I've dropped my handicap by 8 points or so since the change.

As I say there are many variables, but for me the move from a 68" bow to a 66" bow drawing to 27" was a very positive one.

Is that the same model and poundage of limb?!?

[krela]

Yes, before I bought my current setup I was using a stylist bow, where I could swap limbs for postage cost only.


I went from 38# 68" limb to 38# 66" limb, both stylist carbon foam.