X10 Tungsten vs Stainless Steel points.

[Old Bloke]

Many thanks for the last two posters and that of Tim's earlier post. At last some sense and as for the spine element from the work I have done so far, ASW is spot on with the 1" off the back. I really didn't want to use the 380 if I could help it and with some extra bow weight available, sounds like 410 with 120 is the match.

[Stretch]

Not sure if this adds anything useful - in a direct comparison of 100gr, 110gr and 120gr points, all in the same length 410 shafts shot at 70m off a 46lb Helix 31.75" total length with tungstens and Beiter 4.5mm overfits (weaker).

The 110 were grouping tight in the 10 ring and middle 9, the 100 gr were overlapping the group but with centre of group at the top of ten, the 120gr were low 9. The main failing of the test was that I didn't retune nocking pt for each arrow (I'm lazy)

FWIW the 100/110gr pattern was exactly the same as I'd found a few years previously in an Aerotec C+ setup.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding (I'm scanning the thread) but I would strongly hesitate before cutting 1" off the back of an X10 for recurve. I was told (by GT) that 1/2" off the back is roughly equivalent to 1" off the front ie one full spine. My experiments showed that 1/8" off the back made a visible difference (sorry I can't honestly remember how far it was 1997!) I expect that taking 1/8" off the back of a 450 will give me about a 440. (I'm only shooting 44# and the 410 is stiff)

But the real reason for shooting Tungsten points is that they look cool

Stretch

[Old Bloke]

A very usefull post Stretch, but concerning the weights of piles, from records you have kept..which pile weight grouped better in the wind? Logically, from info off other posts in this thread and others, the 120grn should have offered the least spread but I'm presuming this result.

As a footnote..I have received from an engineering company in Exeter (today) some home grown piles of what I think could be a compromise between the Stainless Steel and Tungsten in both weights and price. Alas, as with most things I seem to get done these days (or not), all of the twelve I asked for had bent shanks ... Unbelievable but true, so I told the boss man where he could put his bent piles and it was where the sun don't shine if that was the best his company could do. It took them two weeks which has been my time wasted..but hey ho..they looked good if nothing else!

More to follow on this in the coming weeks as I might be asking for testers of M.B. and above (lady/gent..recurve/compound)

[timfatheroftom]

OB,
You may find that if taking much off the back from X10's, you will NEED 120gns to help straighten shafts flight as the back ends become stiff and tends to give a bigger kick out of bow.
Tom has been shooting 410's c/w 32mm cut from back end and 120pts, faster than the 380's (c/w 110 stainless pts with 19mm off back) but poss. not as forgiving, at the moment we are testing which permutation works best for 70mts and no other distance, for I, along with many others believe you can tune the bow/arrow for each individual distance of a FITA.
If you can shoot an X10 shaft without cutting any off the back- its probably going to be the best option, but if the arrow becomes so heavy and slow at the longest distances then I would question whether it is the correct choice of shaft type, as side winds will still affect the arrows course no matter what.

These are just my observations , I make no claims about it being difinitive data.

[Old Bloke]

Once again a sensible reply and my many thanks. I did post a thread a while back about different sporting equipment (weights etc) for varying conditions and suggested using different arrows for different conditions to see whether anyone would chip in. I think for most it went above their heads as an arrow is an arrow, but not so as I see it concerning Target Archery. All archers across the world now seek perfection and the tuning of kit to the *N*th degree simply because the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is now worth having and if one is going to be competitive and wish to arrive at the pot of gold, then one must also seek out the best rather than having a *that'll do* approach.

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by Old Bloke

A very usefull post Stretch, but concerning the weights of piles, from records you have kept..which pile weight grouped better in the wind? Logically, from info off other posts in this thread and others, the 120grn should have offered the least spread but I'm presuming this result.

To be brutally honest I can't see a lot of difference, I shot most of my best scores with 100gr points (GTs recommendation at the time) including breaking 300 in a side wind that had a few 1300 shooters using ACEs struggling to break 280. (Shame about the 50m ) But the way I shoot the wind always had a bigger effect on me than my arrows

I just think that with X10s the shaft profile makes the biggest difference - although aerodynamically this may be illogical. I think for me - when I was shooting my best - the heavier points were not forgiving of a weak release - they'd go low on shots I'd get away with the lighter points. And the weight makes bu&*er all next to no difference to the spine.

Unfortunately my opportunity to shoot more than 30m these days are few and far between so I've not tested anything recently! I bought the 120gr on whim - and because the Helix took a chunk off my draw length

If I drop point weight I'll go back to SS points - or keep an eye on ebay for some 2nd hand tungstens.

Good luck with your new points!

YMMV

Stretch

[whiz]

Originally Posted by sp220

Does anyone have any views on protours being shot with a 'curve?

Yes. My coach shot his PB's with them. Go your hardest.

[Old Bloke]

A very interesting evening at Budleigh last night.

Shot the x10 410 without anything off the back. Put in it my new home made 125 grn (well 123 actually..2 grns of glue) and shot away. Perfectly spined to 30mts (bare shaft) but instantly noticeable was that the FOC kept the shaft flying like shot out of a compound..in other words very little parabolic curve. Changed to the SS110 grn and shot. Arrow perfectly spined but dropped like a brick when getting to about 25mts. FOC probably too far forward for the length of shaft used.
In supposition, the home grown piles with a reduced forward of centre than that of the SS points, will in my mind (not fully tested yet) remain on a lower trajectory than that of the SS point and as such will be less time in the air and of a lesser height so will not be affected as much by the wind....as I say it shot like an arrow out of a compound bow. As far as the SS points go, from what i saw tonight, the FOC would cause this arrow to be a high shot trajectory (wide sight marks) and with only 110 up front would probably, to a degree) negate the design benefits of the X10 shaft and probably wouldn't put much over the ACE, if at all. One has to ask why Easton make the tungsten point and the thinking behind it.
So from first tests, the 125 grn point worked as I hoped it would and for all the right reasons. More work to be done but so far looking good!
I have a shoot on sunday, a York and will probably end up shooting the X10 410 (no cut from back) and shoot the 110 grains SS points, just to see how they perform. I will not have my matched 125 grns home mades untill a week or so I guess.
Forgot to add, the engineering company sent me just one pile...a straight one too..I gues they felt guilty for messing up the job!!

[Eluned]

Originally Posted by sp220

The grains are whatever you set it at.

However - the stainless points are max 110 grains (min 90), whereas the tungsten come as 120 max (min 100)...

The stainless points are also very long.

I much prefer the tungsten points, but thats a personal choice.

Oh, and the 10 grain difference wont affect sight mark on an X10, its too heavy for that. It wont affect a bareshaft test either - 10 grains is tiny.

PS: and shooting the poundage you probably are, you probably dont want to have less than 110 gn anyway.

The above was your very early contribution to OB's enquiry and initiation of this thread. It is very difficult to see what else you could contribute to the thread after informing us that 10 grain difference will affect neither sight mark or bareshaft. If others agreed with you the thread should have ended there. It has not. How the later contributions corroborate your assertions and opinions must be weighed by each reader.

However, your contribution has continued but I am now confused by your most recent entry. Whilst I might admire your willingness to discuss an issue upon which you know nothing, (Protour !), I fail to make any connection with this thread. Please take this in the best possible way. Hush up now and allow the grown ups to talk. After all, this is not rocket science!

[worthipa]

Originally Posted by sp220

(X10 ProTour) So is there any actual stigma against shooting them off a recurve?

Apparently not ....