Cartel Triple spine question for recurve

[wanshu]

Ok Here goes. Recurve question.
Bought a dozen Cartel triple 400's from Alternative after Christmas and kept them in the tube until I needed to build them, in time for the Outdoor season.
This I did, Specs are 30inch arrows with pin knocks, when built they had 120 grain break-off points up front these have since been reduced to 100gns.
Fletched with kurley vanes 1st, when these were ripped of by contact with the bow and arrow rest I refletched with 1.75 inch or 35mm Elite Plastifletch.
The bow I used is a Hoyt Axis with Border TXB 41lb limbs, draw length of 28.5 inch 68 inch total length. The bow has a hand built wooden grip from the previous owner, it feels comfortable in the hand, but on closer inspection, one of the fellow members believes that the bow on release was twisting to the left slightly from the back, this could be the reason that the fletchings are being brought into contact with the arrow rest/pressure button.

Nocking point, brace height, tiller, centre shot. All have been looked at and examined to work out why these arrows fly so badly.
The paper check was a laugh. The fletching tear was 3 inches down at 45 degrees left from the entry point.

The bow has been shelved and out came the Eclipse with the Sebastian Flute 44 pounders 70 inch bow. Still problems with contact but not as bad. Pressure button is set up correctly. It does not depress with the clicker pressure on. Not so hard either. Nock point and centre shot sorted.
They arrows are going to the right of centre and the fletchings are catching the rest and pressure button.
No longer using the arrows at the moment.
My shooting style does not seem to have changed and the older arrows that are now under-spined show no contact problems.
I've let other members shoot my arrows, they shoot slightly less poundage than I. Arrows fly OK.
If they were 300's I would use them for compound. They have not so far lived up to expectations. I did consult the chart from Alternative before buying and according to the chart: 400's at 30 inch long go from 40-50lb with recurve. Will have the bow poundage checked if it's over 50lb I will scream. Any suggestions welcome and thanks.

[tel]

I was shooting 30" 400s 110 grain with EP16s, 45-47lb on the fingers and experienced no problems at all (or more accurately no problems with the equipment!)
I reckon the arrows should be OK and would suggest looking at why the bow is twisting first.

[wanshu]

It's a strange one....never been bothered with fletching contact apart from when my nocking point dropped after altering the brace height and I forgot to alter it. This is the worst contact I've experienced.
I suppose Back to basics....From the ground up could work I think.
The idiot behind the bow is the most likely cause.

[tel]

in my own case most problems can be traced back to the said idiot - not suggesting its the same for everyone though!
Good luck!

[JohnKR]

I am shooting 30" 400s, 110 grain points, ff187 vanes. Border TXBs about 41lb on fingers. I have no issues with clearance, and when new, the arrows bare shaft tuned spot on.
One year on, I refletched, and bare shaft tuned again (same set up) and they show a tad weak. This bears out what has been said in previous posts about arrows loosing spine, and not being able to match new and old shafts exactly.
How much difference this makes though is up for debate.

[BorderBows]

have i jumped off at a the wrong end of the diving board...
Using 2lbs to the inch
You say you have a 28.5" draw length.

You also say that your arrows are 30" long, and at 30" they are correct spine.
Does this mean that your arrows do have the wrong spine... but your only shooting 28" of them.

JohnKR said he has 41lbs on his fingers at 30" which means he should be shooting 37lbs at 28" or there abouts.

Tel is on 46lbs say at 30" meaning he is on 42lbs at 28"

So far we can agree that 400's are ok with 41-46lbs at 30"
whats the score with 400's at 41@28"?

Also how have you got your limb bolts wound in or out?
what im getting at is, they are getting say 205fps with i assume long limbs over 30" and your getting the same speed over 28" meaning you stressing the arrow more, ontop of that, you have 100grain points with an extra 7-8grains per inch X2 of over hang that is resisting going forward.
At a guess id say your looking for 500's with that overhang of shaft to soften them up... if you see what i mean...
your in the 500-600 range looking at the chart if your drawing 28.5"

[JohnKR]

JohnKR said he has 41lbs on his fingers at 30" which means he should be shooting 37lbs at 28" or there abouts.

You are correct (or there abouts) 36lbs limbs wound out. Have only checked this on a spring type scale, so could be a bit either side as they are not always the most accurate of devices.

[moo-mop]

Originally Posted by BorderBows

So far we can agree that 400's are ok with 41-46lbs at 30"

I say weak.
At 46-47lbs weight (fingers) with a 29.5inc draw length (back of bow) and beiter insert nocks my 400s are quite a bit too weak if you judge by bareshaft position. Therefore, if you're like me I'd also expect them to be too weak as you have a longer arrow.

[speed]

Originally Posted by wanshu

The idiot behind the bow is the most likely cause.

Thanks wanshu blame me


Seriously though I am shooting Triples 600 spine 28.5 inch and 44.5lb on my fingers with a draw length of 28"" so maybe BorderBows statement is worth investigating.

I am not back in the UK till the 7/8th of June but if you want to try my Triple to see the difference just PM me and we can arrange to meet up.

[AKC1]

Hello Wanshu,

I have been shooting outdoors this season with 29 3/4" 400's with 110gn piles
and beiter nocks. My findings from lots of bow tuning along with fellow archer moo-mop indicate that 400's are too weak for myself, (I shoot 41# on the fingers) may I suggest you try the tuning method described here:

http://www.archery-interchange.com/f...Park_method%29


This will show you if your arrows are actualy to stiff/weak and allow you to try and match them as best as possible.

All the best,

Alex