Tiller affecting Grip

[Kae]

Okey dokey, been a while since I actually asked a serious question, so here goes:

Mid outdoor season: Shooting good scores (B/M bordering on M/B), then everything went bottoms up. During our outdoor champs on Sunday, I shot a 38 point dozen! Fortunatley I won, through good luck more than anything.

Indoor Season so far: Poor results. 500's Portsmouths etc.

I got really disheartened tonight, and was ready to make aluminnium matchsticks out of my bow.
I decided to stop feeling sorry for myself and actually find out what was wrong with me or my equipment.
So I stripped the bow down to the bare essentials (string, limbs, riser & sight).

Pulled the string back, and my sight (which is aimed at the gold) went above the gold by about 4 inches. The bow also forced itself down into my hand.
mmmm. So after checking everything, I remember that I changed my Tiller to zero (after reading heretic archer), and that was roughly when I started having problems. damn damn damn.
Changed this back to my previous setting, and the bow no longer forces itself down into my hand, and the sight stayed on the gold.
woohoo, problem solved! 10,10,10,10,10,9 woohoo!


So, the question is, does this sound right? Can the tiller make such a difference to how the bow sits in your hand?

Also can someone direct me to a site that offers an exact copy of the Helix grip but in wood? I can only find the higher grip version. (I'd love to get a custom grip, but just can't afford one (mmmm green loesch grips) ).

Thanks everyone for you help, Kae.

[JohnK]

Yes, yes it most certainly can.

A very good archer and bow designer told me once that tiller, bow hand pressure point, nocking point and stabilisation are all interconnected. If you change one, it will have a nock-on effect. Sounds like you had a good set up before you changed the tiller.

Also, Border limbs are built in matched sets with an amount of positive tiller (although this of course varies depending on the riser you put them on, as riser geometry varies). I and at least three other archers I know have found that setting them to zero tiller increases limb tip vibration quite significantly.

[madmac]

If the tillering is out ie top limb stronger than bottom limb the bow becomes top heavy. my tillering isabout an 1/8 of an inch out at the bottom try diferent setups to see whats best for you and bow.I put an epoxy putty on my own wooden grip on saturday shot tonite and have added 20 points on my ports shot 30 x 10s first time ever.I fitted putty onto handle then held the bow the way i wanted and shaped putty to my hand doesnt look pretty but hey nor am I

[Kae]

Originally Posted by JohnK

I and at least three other archers I know have found that setting them to zero tiller increases limb tip vibration quite signficantly.

Cheers John, I thought that as well. But I was following the routine of "This person knows more than me, so do it his way, so therefore I will". When will I learn, just to do what's right! lol.

When I tried the bow bare, before I made alterations, I thought it was going to explode! Thinking about it, it was much much quieter after fixing the Tiller.

[Dave St]

Originally Posted by Kae

(after reading heretic archer),

After reading this I was also tempted to alter the bow to zero tiller to try it. But the bow seems to perform ok so decided to leave it alone.
So I guess,
If it ain't broke , don't fix it.

Dave.

[BowSurfer]

I also seem to recall reading somewhere - possibly an AI-UK thread, that the tiller helps you take some of the weight of the long rod onto tha back, so that the bow doesn't feel so heavy in the hand at full draw.

[not dead yet]

my carbon plus limbs were at 1/4" tiller . set my border ml2's at 1/4" could get a group. phoned sid at border he said set them to 3mm as they have a built in tiller..?? worked wonders group just came right

[Kae]

Originally Posted by not dead yet

my carbon plus limbs were at 1/4" tiller . set my border ml2's at 1/4" could get a group. phoned sid at border he said set them to 3mm as they have a built in tiller..?? worked wonders group just came right

When limbs are said to have a built in Tiller, it means that one limb is stiffer than the other. Therefore you don't have to have as much of a Tiller as an untillered pair. I seem to remember it that way anyway.

I just can't believe I was soooo stupid. damn damn damn. The bow feels a thousand times better now! damn damn damn.

[Jerry Tee]

I have always thought that the purpose of tiller was to account for the fact that the center of pressure of the grip is below the center of the bow i e the button hole. If this is changed you will effect nock travel. If you change your grip there is a chance that you will move the center of pressure of the bow hand which could effect the tiller set up.

[BowSurfer]

Originally Posted by Kae

When limbs are said to have a built in Tiller, it means that one limb is stiffer than the other. Therefore you don't have to have as much of a Tiller as an untillered pair. I seem to remember it that way anyway.

True, but, what you measure with your gauge is the effect of the tiller. It doesn't matter whether that tiller has been implemented by having differently built limbs or by adjusting the location point of one or other of the limbs.
It is still true that different bows may perform better with different amounts of tiller, which is why you normally see a range quoted rather than a difinitive value.
In tuning, vertical adjustment is made by either tiller or nock point adjustment, and while you generally want both of these positions to be 'reasonable' I don't know of any tuning method which allows you to differentiate between them, although the effects of each are not (I believer) identical.