seb flute limb problems

[Timid Toad]

Hi all,
Does anyone know of problems with Seb Flute Carbon limbs? I've had a quick search on AIUK and all I can see is praise for them, which was and still is my opinion of them.
A poor chap in my club, novice, very seriously into archery (and already very good) has been having unexplained loss of form for a week or two. We put it down to the usual ups and downs, and the fact that he has just put a clicker on.
However, the other night, I'm watching and thinking his arrows are all over, and so I'm watching to see if he's doing anything obviously wrong. Nothing that I can see (no expert). So I suggest checking his tune. Bare shafts are so far too stiff that they are missing the boss low left. Now I thought they should be weak as they were tuned correctly before adding the clicker and he's added a little to his draw length since. We checked everything we could think of, until Him Indoors is casually checking the limbs, and spots a crinkle in the varnish, inside of the lower limb, just at the start of the working length. It looks like a hair caught under the varnish during manufacture, and is about 7mm long from the edge in. We let the bow down and pretty much before our eyes this "hair" becomes a crack and starts to peal up as the limb relaxes. Its down to the carbon layer. Limb gubbed.

This novice is the most proud of his kit as I have ever seen anyone (and I count myself as pretty anal), its treated as if his life depends on it so I know there is no misuse issue here. Its his first bow, about 8 months old and understandably he is utterly gutted and was pretty close to tears. (You can't give him a big hug when his wife is standing there!)

Has anyone else seen or heard of a similar problem? Did it take long to rectify? How was it dealt with? He's entered for the Scottish Novice Champs in three weeks if we can persuade him to pick the bow up again.

Isn't it funny how something like this gets us all down? We've just been scratching our heads. And checking our limbs.

Thanks for your help.

[moo-mop]

I have heard (first-hand, not passed around as hearsay) of one other pair of sebstain flute carbon limbs, bought around april-ish, which snapped after about a single portsmouth. But you will always find some limbs from any brand that do go.

The sad thing is despite being new, the online archery shop concerned wouldn't replace them, and claimed he must have mistreated them - I suppose several of you will guess which one this is - although they did sell the unfortunate junior a new pair at cost price. I believe these have been fine. I'd have been taking the retailer to the small claims court if it had been me though, as it seems like pure laziness. I hope your novice does not find themselves in the same predicament.

[BowSurfer]

If you don't get any joy from the retailer in a case like this, it is worth going directly to the maker. Bowyers are generally more concerned for their own skill and reputation than a retailer is and they are more likely to do something about it. After all it is their reputation and skill which is on the line.
When my orginal Stylist limbs broke I got replacements straight awya from the retailer. Later, when shooting in a competition the guy from Stylist asked to look at my bow, and then asked to be allowed to take the limbs away with him so that he could 'tweak' them a bit, and posted them back in time for me to shoot the following weekend. I have never been quite sure what he did to them, but it is an example of good service even when not asked for.

[Rik]

Originally Posted by moo-mop

I have heard (first-hand, not passed around as hearsay) of one other pair of sebstain flute carbon limbs, bought around april-ish, which snapped after about a single portsmouth. But you will always find some limbs from any brand that do go.

The sad thing is despite being new, the online archery shop concerned wouldn't replace them, and claimed he must have mistreated them - I suppose several of you will guess which one this is - although they did sell the unfortunate junior a new pair at cost price.

I believe it's actually illegal to do that. The sale of goods act says that the supplier has to prove the goods weren't defective, if they go within the first 6 months. The burden of proof shifts to the customer after that.

[Murray]

Some retailers don't know one end of the sale of goods act from the other...
Some retailers don't know one end of a pencil from the other....

Sorry to hear about the SF limbs. In my experience, any manufacturing process will generate its failures. I'm not sure how much pre-sales testing limbs go through, but I suspect not much... the retailer should replace, otherwise the manufacturer should step in.

(We once got a riser which had paint in the pressure button thread. The retailer (quicks) said just to force the button through the paint and refused to replace it - we found this impossible and took it to a machine shop to get it re-tapped and also sent an email to PSE. Terry Ragsdale replied personally and promptly replaced the riser, even though it had been tapped, and shipped it through Quicks!! )

[Thunk]

I've been shooting SF carbon limbs since April and mine are fine (touch wood!)

I don't suppose anybody has dry-shot the bow? That can produce this sort of damage...

Nothing is perfect - even Rolls Royce must produce a Friday night special from time to time. If the retailer doesn't change them you have two choices - either get heavy with the Sale of Goods Act, or speak to the manufacturers direct. If the latter, make sure you tell them about the lack of support from the retailer.

I bought mine from a shop, and although I haven't had any problem, they seem to have a very good reputation for customer service.

[Kae]

Originally Posted by Thunk

I've been shooting SF carbon limbs since April and mine are fine (touch wood!)

I don't suppose anybody has dry-shot the bow? That can produce this sort of damage...

Nothing is perfect - even Rolls Royce must produce a Friday night special from time to time. If the retailer doesn't change them you have two choices - either get heavy with the Sale of Goods Act, or speak to the manufacturers direct. If the latter, make sure you tell them about the lack of support from the retailer.

I bought mine from a shop, and although I haven't had any problem, they seem to have a very good reputation for customer service.

mmm I hope that bow manufacturers don't adjust there bows with a cricket bat like Rolls Royce did.

[Stretch]

The dealer has an obligation to the replace the limb and don't settle for anything less. You may even try another dealer if you promise to sacrifice your children and a goat or two on their credit card machine. I'd also encourage naming and shaming of the dealer

Dry-firing? Well I'm not saying do it - but most of the serious manufacturers test their bows for this. AFAIR Hoyt tested G3s to thousands of dry fires (shooting machines) without performance issues... but yes - eventually they let go.

Delaminations are just a fact of life in this sport.

If it makes your club mate feel any better, the best performing limbs I ever had were a set of prototype Stylist 1300 Club limbs that I'd BORROWED. Took them down the field, shot 70m with them, after getting my sight in I couldn't put an arrow outside the yellow! Wow - happy puppy - crack - delamination. Some things just aren't meant to be. (Fortunately Neil Pearson was very understanding about me destroying his old limbs )

Good luck

Stretch

[Rik]

Originally Posted by Thunk

I don't suppose anybody has dry-shot the bow? That can produce this sort of damage...

A delam? The only time I saw a set of limbs go due to dry firing, they didn't delam, as such. The string cut down through the limb nocks for several inches (before it broke), but no delam...

[Flying Whale]

Originally Posted by Thunk

Nothing is perfect - even Rolls Royce must produce a Friday night special from time to time.

I am sure things are not quite like this now but back in the late 50's an ex-pat in southern Africa bought a Rolls. A couple of years later the gear box failed. He contacted the Rolls dealer, who got a new one shipped in and fitted it. 6 months later the person contected the dealer to remind them that they had not invoiced him yet (I did say this was a while back!). The dealers comment was something along the lines of "I think you must be mistaken, sir. Rolls Royce gear boxes never fail".

Sounds like your dealer/shop is not that good. Perhaps contacting SF would allow them to prove themselves worthy. If they don't know they certainly can't be blamed.