Canting an English Long Bow

[steve58]

Have searched the forum but found very little on this topic. As far as I can see the default style of shooting ELB is to keep the bow vertical.

However, reading Horace Ford's book he recommends a slight cant (given his recorded scores he must have known something!). I am also finding that keeping the bow vertical is feeling less and less natural/comfortable.

Have any of you experimented with canting this type of bow for target shooting? Based on your experience what might I expect if I experiment with this?

[English Bowman]

A slight cant can help to get the arrow flying straighter, and can be beneficial.
The problem is that you have to be consistent. If you vary the cant at all it will change the impact point of the arrows, and it's much easier to tell if the bow is upright or not than if the angle of cant is right.
I shoot with the bow upright for target archery and canted for field

Daniel

[Dante]

Personally I go for the vertical as it seems more natural when I draw the bow. This is for target shooting I will let you know about Field at the end of the Month after Ruth has introduced me

[steve58]

I take the point about the need to be consistent with the degree of cant, as with anything to do with shooting. Although I have just read "Become the Arrow" and I think the advice is to cant more or less according to the distance? Think I have read that elsewhere on the forum, but aimed at AFB shooters.
I am wondering if keeping the bow vertical, which is how I have shot so far, is beginning to be a problem; I feel as though the handle is in the wrong place in my hand and I seem to be throwing the bow left quite often. It feels as though the arm muscles are lined up wrong to be able to keep on line.
Maybe I have just hit a slump and am looking for something to blame? As for longbow coaches... are there any in the Nottingham area? None of the four at our club is a longbow coach as such, only one of them shoots longbow and I am posting far higher scores even in a slump... but then maybe coaching is about analysing what you see and giving the right advice in the right way for the person being coached to actually be able to listen to it?

[Bald Eagle]

I coach longbow archers in our club, along with recurve and compounds, it's the same! Only the equipment is different. As is already said, you assess the individual and start from there. A guy in our club cants his bow, 3/4 draws, snatches his release and puts in good scores, he's been shooting (stylewise) badly for so long he's got quite good. He condemns the use of rubber bands and shoots "instinctively" That's up to him, but the archer that shoots like Ascham describes will shoot better IMHO

[steve58]

Originally Posted by Bald Eagle

I coach longbow archers in our club, along with recurve and compounds, it's the same! Only the equipment is different. As is already said, you assess the individual and start from there. A guy in our club cants his bow, 3/4 draws, snatches his release and puts in good scores, he's been shooting (stylewise) badly for so long he's got quite good. He condemns the use of rubber bands and shoots "instinctively" That's up to him, but the archer that shoots like Ascham describes will shoot better IMHO

A coach can watch you shooting. You can't watch yourself so easily He can then assist you to improve and work on any issues you feel are present, such as your handle position and the bow going left in your case (Ruthmc)

Thanks guys! No coaches up at the field tonight, but I think my longbow buddy Dave, who winds me up something wicked normally, has spotted the problem. The way he phrased it was quite clever, it went along the lines of "indoors you were... you aren't doing that at the moment." What it comes down to is that I have gone to trying to hold the bow arm still and shoot by pulling the string hand back. What I was doing, and it worked so much better! was coming to anchor, keeping the tension on and pushing into the target with the bow hand until the shot loosed itself. Have just been working on this on the very short target I keep in the yard and it feels far better. Fingers crossed I can transfer this to the field next chance I get!

Bald Eagle; I think some compound release aids work on back tension? Is this anything like what I am trying to describe? I have been wondering this for a while, if you coach all three bow styles maybe you can help me understand the transference of skills like using back tension across the different disciplines?

[Bald Eagle]

Read John Dudleys article on back tension in The Glade, Summer edition, it's very informative. We all need a trigger to release our arrow, recurve archers use a clicker, some compound archers use a back tension release or finger or thumb. I've found that if you have a "trigger" sooner or later you will hit it as soon as you see gold, a sure sign of target panic/gold shyness. Going to a back tension release takes a bit of discipline and hard work but the end result is worth the effort.
It seems to me that your "trigger" with the longbow is that you have found relaxation in pushing and pulling at reference and the sub-concious takes over the shot execution?

[Fugue]

I took my longbow over to our Twin club in Bezeirs a couple of years ago for a field shoot, and got some excellent advice on canting my english longbow from the French!!

Basically they showed me that it was possible to maintain the aiming point for close range shooting by canting the bow over at a greater angle for closer targets.

This may be old hat for some of you, but I found it surprising and helpful.

[steve58]

Originally Posted by Bald Eagle

Read John Dudleys article on back tension in The Glade, Summer edition, it's very informative. We all need a trigger to release our arrow, recurve archers use a clicker, some compound archers use a back tension release or finger or thumb. I've found that if you have a "trigger" sooner or later you will hit it as soon as you see gold, a sure sign of target panic/gold shyness. Going to a back tension release takes a bit of discipline and hard work but the end result is worth the effort.
It seems to me that your "trigger" with the longbow is that you have found relaxation in pushing and pulling at reference and the sub-concious takes over the shot execution?

Bald Eagle I think that is the other missing part of the puzzle... I have been trying so o o o hard recently and looking back I can see that the relaxation into the subconscious execution of the shot is something I have lost. There is a point where one has to step aside and allow the training to take over and simply observe.
Ironically I once wrote out my shot routine; having put all the physical steps in I went back over it and put in a final step, it was precisely this point of waiting quietly for the shot at the moment of highest tension (Herrigel refers to something similar in Zen in the Art of Archery).
This is why we need coaches, to remind us of what we know at just the right moment, thank you.

[gwynn]

I find to cant the bow is natural - mind you it's a good job I only do field 'cos if I did target I'd be poking the end of my bow in someone's ear when I was knocking the arrow. I find for longer distance the bow comes more vertical but never all the way