Flight Arrows

[Lord_Azrael]

A few of us are going along to Castle Fraser in September to have a go at the clout and flight tournaments, and my friend is currently setting up his 2nd bow to try and get a high score in the flight.
Just out of interest, wht would the best arrow setup be for this?
I know from him that because he has shortened the longbow, he will have to fire 27 1/2" arrows to still qualify for the height of the bow, but what sort of fletchings and piles are best for this? I'm asuming fairly lightweight piles and small fletches?

[TimS]

Just posted this elsewhere, but hopefully it helps ....

I thought I remembered this thread.

I hope the following comment may be of some interest and is not too late.

I shoot roving clout/mark almost exclusively. I use a 60lb @ 30" Bickerstaffe Longbow with which I am extremely pleased.

I normally use some spine matched to bow Bickerstaffe Arrows, with medium piles, slightly larger than dumpy fletchings and parallel 11/32 shafts and would expect about 210-220 yds nil wind.

I also have (from previous 45lb bow with which I started) some Quicks' light pile, dumpy fletching, parallel 5/16 shafted arrows with which I can get an extra 10 yds although they do come out of the bow a bit sideways at full stretch.

This is certainly enough for me at all our club shoots with clouts (known distance) at between 110 and 160 yds (and occasional 180 yds) and for the majority of roving marks (unknown distances) although the odd one in the 240 yd range causes a few problems.

It was the latter, and the opportunity to participate in a few flight competitions along with the roving mark days, such as fraternity of St George in Kent with whom we have now shot a few times, that got a few of us interested in obtaining a few extra yards.

Let me stress that we are not flight shooters and these comments and suggestions are for those in the 'few extra yards category' rather than the flight and warbow merchants amongst you (many of whom I know and have been very helpful to me)!

The initial reaction was to consider a heavier bow, but this is an expensive solution for what is not a priority requirement and very often the increased bow weight can be offset by a necessitated change elsewhere – bearing in mind that is probable (and advisable medically) only to increase by say 10lbs at a time – as for example, if I move from 60lb to 70lb it will become impossible to use 5/16 shafts (which are rare at even 55 spine) otherwise the resulting initial unstable flight will increase drag and yet simple maths (backed up by experimentation) says the increased surface are will again increase drag so that a benefit is not achievable until perhaps 80lbs.

These factors lud us/me to become more interested in the 'science of the arrow' as the solution.

I asked for advice and opinion from a number of sources (including Pip Bickerstaffe, Steve Stratton of DIY Archery – an excellent warbow and flight exponent, and John Catley at Little John Arrows) ands one thing was obvious … no-one agreed as to the ultimate solution!

Therefore I set about some modest (and semi scientific) experimentation and with John Catley's endless patience and assistance produced four basically matched (5/16 shaft at 55 spine and with 5 grains weight) but different shaft designs:

1) Barreled
2) Tapered front 2/3rds
3) Chested (tapered front third / rat tailed rear third)
4) Rat tailed rear third, with taper in front three inches.

Then shot them in and out of wind, together with one of each of my own arrows (see above) and recorded the distances over a period of time – nearly 600 shots in all taken into account.

The result showed a clear winner in the rat tailed arrow with slight taper at front.

The other indication was that a light arrow was best with wind, but a heavier arrow into wind.

John has since produced me a superbly finished set of 12 clout arrows, matched to 55 spin exactly and initially (same pile) to within 8 grains and dumpy flights (great attention to the join at pile and knocks).

I then changed the six lightest to light piles (with wind shots)

At the recent flight competitions I achieved 265 with a slight tailwind and 238 into a steady wind – so am well pleased.

I have ordered another 6 which will have cut down fletchings and would hope to be in the 270 yd nil wind area with those.

The normally fletched arrows are superbly stable and provide a good clout grouping.

Other than I am having to learn new distances, so scores will fall – hopefully temporarily, I am totally pleased.

I would recommend John Catley's craftsmanship to anyone. No doubt he will be pleased to copy our design for anyone.

[Lord_Azrael]

Thanks for that. I'll do some experimenting with my arrows and see what I can achieve. I'm only shooting a 44lb longbow, and have made a few sets of 5/16 arrows so far, but will try some variations on the type to see which go furthest. I'm still trying to reach the furthest clout marker at present....

[TimS]

I might just be getting most of September off and return to the UK and hoping to get some varied archery in - where can I find details of Castle Fraser event ?

Don't bother with a reply - found the details and 'I don't do' GNAS and dress codes !

[Lord_Azrael]

This will be the first time I've been to an official event like this, and therefore had to go and specially buy green clothes!
Nevermind, the event itself is supposed to be very good, so I'll see....

[hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Lord_Azrael

I'm asuming fairly lightweight piles and small fletches?

Small fletchings yes but not necessarly small piles. I have been experimenting with flight arrows and I have tried all sorts of fletchings but have found that 2 3/4 inch long and 1/4 inch high have proven to be the best as they have the length to straighten the arrow but not too much height to slow the arrow when in flight.

I have had lots of problems with piles !(no jokes please) I thought that light piles would float through the air BUT in my experience they don't ! Especially in wind! I have found that physics acutally is right ! When in flight an arrows momentum changes from push from the bow to pull from the pile. I have used 70 grain - rubbish. I have used 80 grain - rubbish !! So at the moment I am using 100grain 5/16 piles on a barrelled 23/64 100lb spine shaft with 2 3/4 " long feathers and 1/4" high.

Now my distances are only just over 300yds, but when you talk to Steve at DIYarchery.com then these distances are just not far enough. He can get over 350yds !! and another bloke (can't remember his name) can regulary get over 400yds!!!

I was hoping to get the championships in Yorkshire this year to compete in the flight competition but I have just been to busy - I knew I wouldn't win but really wanted to compete. I am now tempted to buy a flight arrow from Steve to find out what I'm doing wrong

[Lord_Azrael]

Will have to try and replicate that to an extent as I've just been trying my standard 28" 5/16 shafts with 63g piles and both 4" & 2" fletchings at 1/2" high.
They're all falling well short of the 180yd clout marker, the closest being about 19 yds back!!

I've only got a few weeks now to try and perfect something that will reach that marker. The Flight is unimportant as I'll never get record distances, but I must get to the clout marker!!

[hawkeye]

Lord Azrael , what is the poundage of your bow?

[Lord_Azrael]

It's a 44lb one, or so I was told when I bought it, I haven't tested the scales yet to make sure it is exactly.

[English Bowman]

What spine arrows are you shooting?

By my book you should have 30/35 or 25/50 depending on the bow, and if you can get a lower profile fletching it would help.

Also do you have a dacron or fastflite string? I'd put a laid in fastflite on there. (But not an endless loop as that doesn't have the give in it that a longbow needs according to one bowyer I know)

Daniel