Hmm..clout time again

[Lord_Azrael]

Well, the clout's are about to start again up here in the icy north, and I'm still stuck with the big problem...reaching the 180 yd mark.

With my old 38lb recurve I would have to hold back a bit otherwise the arrow would sail miles over the mark and end up taking out a passing light aircraft, but with my 44lb longbow the closest I have reached yet is 19 yards short of the target.

I am in 'mad professor mode' now trying to formulate an arrow that will get the 180 yd mark and am open to suggestions........

I'm thinking of trying to barrel a few shafts down to 1/4" but am probably going to find it a little difficult to mount the shafts in the lathe. Are there easier ways to accomplish this?

Has anyone succesfully achieved a formula for this poundage bow that has made the mark? Or should I try to bribe the authorities to reduce the distance?

[Trunkles]

I'll tell you in a weeks time - I too fell between 10 and 20 yards short on the 23rd March at Panda clout. Just had some new arrows built which are spined lower and have lower weight points. These are 23 grams compared to my previous set which are 29 grams (355 grains vs 447 grains). Two clouts this month on 13th and 20th so will see what happens with my 45 l/b.

[Saxon]

Before the shaft go for a flight feather profile i suspect it will provide a better distance with the less drag it provides. I tried with one of my standard arrows putting a wrap of wire behind the feathers to alter the cog and found that worked.

I must stress though that i speak from a background of no knowledge and just fiddle!!

[Dreadnaught]

If your not already using a fast flight string that will make a lot more difference than barreling arrows

[grimsby archer]

Originally Posted by Lord_Azrael

I'm thinking of trying to barrel a few shafts down to 1/4" but am probably going to find it a little difficult to mount the shafts in the lathe. Are there easier ways to accomplish this?

Put the end of the shaft in the chuck of an electric drill. 2 blocks of wood each with a v shaped groove cut in it. Fold fine sandpaper round the shaft and sandwich with the blocks so that the arrow sits in the grooves. Start the drill and keep the blocks moving up and down the shaft.

Also seen one long block of wood with a v groove cut in its full length. Shaft sits in groove, driven by electric drill. One hand sized block with v groove and sandpaper to run up and down shaft.

Not my technique, but taken from a world famous video on making arrow shafts from squares by strongman John Quinn from Grimsby. The video is world famous (in Grimsby at least) for the extensive use of tea and the word "bugger"

[cloutman360]

If you require a longer term plan, not only to reach the 180 yards clout, but score well and maybe win tournaments while shooting a low poundage bow then I suggest you study the books by H.A.(Bert)Smith.
He does not shoot high poundage bows and he holds the BLBS record for the single (95) and double (183) clout , his scores are far better than any of the gnas clout records ,his books are easy to read and he writes about what he has personally tried out in the field.

[Lord_Azrael]

Thanks for all the replies. There's certainly a few things to try!

I was right about the lathe though, I went out to put a shaft on it and then realised....my Lathe has a 24" bed! Just a little bit small for arrows! Never mind.

[cloutman360]

Fold a piece of abrasives paper and place it in a vice,then simply move the shaft back and forth through the hole while slowly rotating it.

[Bald Eagle]

I've got just the bow for you, it's 100 lb @ 30"!! I've got another, 63 lb @ 28"

[TimS]

This is a copy of an old posting of mine on the subject (I hope it helps) .....

I hope the following comment may be of some interest and is not too late.

I shoot roving clout/mark almost exclusively. I use a 60lb @ 30" Bickerstaffe Longbow with which I am extremely pleased.

I normally use some spine matched to bow Bickerstaffe Arrows, with medium piles, slightly larger than dumpy fletchings and parallel 11/32 shafts and would expect about 210-220 yds nil wind.

I also have (from previous 45lb bow with which I started) some Quicks' light pile, dumpy fletching, parallel 5/16 shafted arrows with which I can get an extra 10 yds although they do come out of the bow a bit sideways at full stretch.

This is certainly enough for me at all our club shoots with clouts (known distance) at between 110 and 160 yds (and occasional 180 yds) and for the majority of roving marks (unknown distances) although the odd one in the 240 yd range causes a few problems.

It was the latter, and the opportunity to participate in a few flight competitions along with the roving mark days, such as fraternity of St George in Kent with whom we have now shot a few times, that got a few of us interested in obtaining a few extra yards.

Let me stress that we are not flight shooters and these comments and suggestions are for those in the 'few extra yards category' rather than the flight and warbow merchants amongst you (many of whom I know and have been very helpful to me)!

The initial reaction was to consider a heavier bow, but this is an expensive solution for what is not a priority requirement and very often the increased bow weight can be offset by a necessitated change elsewhere – bearing in mind that is probable (and advisable medically) only to increase by say 10lbs at a time – as for example, if I move from 60lb to 70lb it will become impossible to use 5/16 shafts (which are rare at even 55 spine) otherwise the resulting initial unstable flight will increase drag and yet simple maths (backed up by experimentation) says the increased surface area will again increase drag so that a benefit is not achievable until perhaps 80lbs.

These factors lead us/me to become more interested in the 'science of the arrow' as the solution.

I asked for advice and opinion from a number of sources (including Pip Bickerstaffe, Steve Stratton of DIY Archery – an excellent warbow and flight exponent, and John Catley at Little John Arrows) ands one thing was obvious … no-one agreed as to the ultimate solution!

Therefore I set about some modest (and semi scientific) experimentation and with John Catley's endless patience and assistance produced four basically matched (5/16 shaft at 55 spine and with 5 grains weight) but different shaft designs:

1) Barreled
2) Tapered front 2/3rds
3) Chested (tapered front third / rat tailed rear third)
4) Rat tailed rear third, with taper in front three inches.

Then shot them in and out of wind, together with one of each of my own arrows (see above) and recorded the distances over a period of time – nearly 600 shots in all taken into account.

The result showed a clear winner in the rat tailed arrow with slight taper at front.

The other indication was that a light arrow was best with wind, but a heavier arrow into wind.

John has since produced me a superbly finished set of 12 clout arrows, matched to 55 spin exactly and initially (same pile) to within 8 grains and dumpy flights (great attention to the join at pile and knocks).

I then changed the six lightest to light piles (with wind shots)

At the recent flight competitions I achieved 265 with a slight tailwind and 238 into a steady wind – so am well pleased.

I have ordered another 6 which will have cut down fletchings and would hope to be in the 270 yd nil wind area with those.

The normally fletched arrows are superbly stable and provide a good clout grouping.

Other than I am having to learn new distances, so scores will fall – hopefully temporarily, I am totally pleased.

I would recommend John Catley's craftsmanship to anyone. No doubt he will be pleased to copy our design for anyone.
__________________
TimS
Clifton Hampden Longbow Society