Flat bow

[steve58]

Thanks Karen, that's very detailed. If I have read it right then in a target shoot in France (I only shoot target at the moment) CraigP and I would be competing with one another and I would have to give up my rubber band! In that situation I think I would get an AFB, as the design is said to be more efficient and often more modern materials are used (which is why I think it is sensible of GNAS to separate them for target shooting). Actually, I rather like the arbitrary nature of English longbow under GNAS/BLBS!

[Karen]

So do I , but over here I don't have the choice if I want to be competitive in the longbow class - hence I shoot a Flatbow, like nearly all the others in this class.
Also in the target shooting there is NO longbow class and so the best I can be classified with is the Barebows _-I did make the qualifier for the French Barebow Championship Indoor 18 m this year (One lady longbow and one male trad hunting recurve out of 116 archers - rest all Barebow recurves).
So we need to do some work over here on that one I think !

Having said that, I started as a Target Barebow recurve, and after a few years of doing the same thing all the time I looked for something more interesting that would stretch my skills a bit more, and found the different types of field shooting. As it is so widespread over here then I don't really feel the need to go back to target shooting, except as techique training in the winter, which isn't very long here !

[gilf]

Originally Posted by Karen

Also - what we shoot here is more akin to the Hunting type 3d, as no one in their right mind would contemplate shooting a live animal with an English Longbow at the distances that some of you in the uk attempt in the 3d shoots and so I think (at risk of starting a riot) that maybe the 3d there is not really a serious attempt to imitate hunting at all. Do all animals stand at the set distance away from the archer or come with markers in front to aim at?
When hunting you need to kill the animal as quickly and cleanly as possible - therefore we score 10 for a kill and 8 for the vital organs and only 5 for a wound, while I understand in the uk it is 10 for the vital organs and still 8 for the whole of the rest of the animal. This to me is also not logical as a wound doesn't give you dinner, just an animal in pain !

Indeed, given there is no hunting with bows in this country field competitions are really just an extension of target archery but in some woods, the introduction of 3D's has been seen more for the fun aspect than any simulation of hunting.

The scoring system at the NFAS is even more out of step in my opinion, it's 20 for a kill with the first arrow or 16 for anywhere else on the 3D. Therefore it's possible to hit the backside of an animal all day and still be in with a shout. That is what caught all the English archers who came to the tournament in France last year, over there it's all about pinpoint accuracy, while we were used to 30-40 yard shots on deer. I also remember last year the odd shot being unscored as it was in a horn or hoof on the basis that if the animal were real it wouldn't have stuck in.

I for one have been zoned in on the shorter ranges for the last 6 months to get ready for the shoot this weekend at Cande.

[Karen]

Thats right - Horns and hooves don't usually count, and often things like tail feather on a turkey face on are zoned out as well - just depends on the target.

Look forward to seeing the scores flying now you've all sussed it out.

Should make for a great weekend

[gwynn]

Originally Posted by steve58

SNIP.... Is it true that in that class all sighting aids (rubber bands, markers on the ground, are banned in France?

No sighting aids on ELBs allowed in NFAS either, it's got to be shot the right way!

[steve58]

Originally Posted by gwynn

No sighting aids on ELBs allowed in NFAS either, it's got to be shot the right way!

Not sure I agree that there is a right and a wrong way as far as sighting aids is concerned. There's what the rules allow/ban, the rest seems to me to be personal philosphy/preference. If the rules banned my rubber band then I would get rid and adapt. If I felt I could shoot better scores without it, it would go. I can see the logic of somethng more gap/instinctive for field, particularly where the distances are unknown and the aim is to get close to the hunting situation, but target is completely artificial and I don't think that applies. Perhaps feeling a little prickly as there are those who say that shooting a longbow with a rubber band isn't proper and that's how I do it! Woudl be interested to know if any of the top modern target longbowers shoot without any aids at all, anyone got any examples? (Having read Horace Ford's victorian book I know he shot without such things and his scores are right up there with the best of our era with a longbow.)

[English Bowman]

I don't know if you count me as a top longbowman or not. I shoot to Bowman standard in target archery and won the county indoor champs a couple of times. I have never used a rubber band on the bow. I feel that it's defeating the object of shooting in the longbow. If I wanted a sight I'd get a recurve.
Saying that I do feel that the band gives you a big advantage and that's one of the reasons that I mainly shoot field as bands are banned under GNAS field rules as well so I'm competing on a level (or not if I'm on a hilly course) playing field.
(I'm currently shooting to MB standard at field archery, I have 2 of the 4 scores needed)

[worthipa]

Originally Posted by steve58

Always wondered what French for a longbow was!

It's, aaaarrrgh !!!

[steve58]

Originally Posted by English Bowman

I don't know if you count me as a top longbowman or not. I shoot to Bowman standard in target archery and won the county indoor champs a couple of times. I have never used a rubber band on the bow. I feel that it's defeating the object of shooting in the longbow. If I wanted a sight I'd get a recurve.
Saying that I do feel that the band gives you a big advantage and that's one of the reasons that I mainly shoot field as bands are banned under GNAS field rules as well so I'm competing on a level (or not if I'm on a hilly course) playing field.
(I'm currently shooting to MB standard at field archery, I have 2 of the 4 scores needed)

Is that Bowman on the old target classifications? I was second class last season on those, but look to be heading for bowman this season. The more I think about this rubber band thing the more in two minds I am. With my new bow, which is a little faster and has had less abuse than the old one, at 100 yards I am using the valley between the first and second knuckle on the bow hand on the gold to get the elevation. At 80 I can use the pile somewhere on the target face, round about 6 o'clock in line with the gold is the usual spot, depending on the wind. So for most of a York I am not really using the band (I use it for confirmation at 80). At 60 and below I do use the band, but I seem to aim by looking at the gold (and this seems to really matter) and allowing the rest of the sight picture to build up around it, this includes where the bow and the string are, where the arrow is pointing and where the rubber band is. At that distance (let alone 50 for a western) the arrow point is well below the boss, so how do I set the elevation without either the band or a marker on the ground (and I have tried markers and really find them difficult, I like to look at what I am trying to hit)? It would be brilliant to be able to come to full draw, look at the gold, settle, and loose, but how do I get the length? And how do I start learning this? I feel that getting rid of the band maye brings the shot far more within the archer and I like the idea of that. Open to advice/suggestions/tips!

[English Bowman]

Yes it is Bowman on the old classifications, it expires this season as I haven't done enough target shoots to keep it, but I've got it under the new Field classifications so I don't think I'll bother. (Although it'd be interesting to see what I can get under the new classifications)
I have problems at 60yds with target shooting if I keep the under chin anchor, so I use under chin, pile on gold for 100 yds. Pile just below the target stand legs at 80 and then move my anchor to the side of my face to put the pile on the gold again at 60 yds.
I think that a band would be more accurate, but I want to be as accurate as I can without any sighting aids. The top target guys with bands will almost always beat me, but I get smug points on the odd occasion that I come out on top, and when they come across to field, then I have the advantage!

Daniel