indoor longbow arrow fletchings

[portsmouth495L/B]

my outdoor arrows are 30.25 inch 11/32 100g brass bullet points 4 inch fletchings, 50lb bow. using the same arrows indoor not bad 500 ish for a portsmouth any suggestions to increase grouping.
ie larger fletching 5 / 6 inch - heavier points 125 g. what does any one think.

[kernowtom]

I'd be pleased to shoot 500... and I don't think its my arrows that are stopping me:-) But, reflecting on your question it seems to me that the key is to have arrows that fly well (and you can soon see if they don't) and that are consistent.
At long ranges arrow weight is critical, but at 20x and 50lb with 4" fletchings your arrows are reaching the target pretty quick so minor weight differences will not cause significant variations in drop. I suspect that spine is very important at 20x and ought to be measured and matched after the nocks are fitted - probably vertically as well as horizontally. I have never done this myself - (mmm - now i need to make another bit of kit - curses). If spine is critical - how can we minimise the inevitable variations??? I guess heavier arrows with more drag and a lot of spin will reduce the effect - so here is my suggestion - match the shafts for weight very carefully - increase the point weight - put on 5" shield fletchings helically or on a high degree of offset - check the balance point - try it out. All this is based on theory - and I am sure somebody out there will have more direct experience than me- I will be very interested in follow ups- especially if experience shows I am shooting in the green here (as usual:-))

[robtattoo]

Please bear in mind that increasing point weight will also reduce the spine of your arrows, unless you shorten them.

Try a 6" high sheild-cut fletch, with a good offset. That'll help to calm down the paradox. Also, place your fletches as close to the nock as possible. You may also want to try 4, 5" fletches to help dampen the paradox.

[stevezodiac]

I love Portsmouths, spent 6 months convinced i could hit a 560, how are you shooting, i am guessing you use POA, i found that to really get up there your poa and where it is makes a huge difference, so i tailored the arrow for the job, i like my poa on the edge of the paper on the right hand side (this helps if you get a right hand face at a shoot, as if your poa is off the face you are concentrating at a bit of netting behind or a dodgy bit of straw on the edge of the boss).
with your 50 Lb bow i would say that your poa must be pretty low with the fast-ish arrow, even though it is long (whats your draw length?- if you are drawing almost 30 inch then you may need to slow it down considerably), anyway i used only a 40LB for portsmouth but it was blindingly fast (for a longbow- i got about 20 of the blighters), i used a matched set, which took me a while to put together as to match 8 shafts i had to go through several hundred.
they are a little stiff to bring me right and long and heavy to get the height where i wanted it, at the blue/red 6 o'clock and a line drawn from there to the rh edge
I put on 125gr points and 5 3/4 fletches cut from single feathers cut in the Pope and young style- make a sweet noise as they lazily whoop down the range, i left them full length as yours are so as to gain even more height for my poa. I like to use Boyton pine heavier than POC, but Chris makes superb shafts Total weight 480grn
when you get into the 500's with a longbow your form has to be very good, to get from there to the 525+ your form must be excellent 550 requires almost flawless form
matching you arrows will be a start and is simple if you know what you want.
Form is another thing and again if its a high portsmouth score you are after then you may need to change a few things, i say may as every archer has his own technique and if it works it must be right- for you .
I would come middle finger to a point half way between the front of my lower lip and the corner of my mouth, i find that bit quite sensitive and it shortens my draw by a half inch, good when you don't want the extra power and it can be found consistently, what i also did was to standardise as much as possible my shooting routine, stand straight as it is easier to replicate a straight posture than one at an odd angle, i held the bow straight up and down with no cant or angle and then i shot.. and shot making sure i was not practicing my bad shots but only good ones, i was fortunate to have some exceptional recurve and compound shooter to give advice on stance and shooting posture cos if you are shooting for score and it really is score you are after then you have to go with what is going to get that score- if you follow.
This may sound bizzare but even if your arrows are matched to the Nth, with wood there will always be a variation, no matter what you do and eventually you will have 3 poa's, one for each arrow (which of course by this stage will not only be numbered but named too!!), i hate to admit it but i even shot whole portsmouths with one arrow to identify exactly where that poa was for that arrow, so the long and short is that my pb was 551, which i hit on 3 occasions, i stopped fairly shortly after that as the fun went out of it for me, chasing a score is great whilst you are improving but when you reach a plateau it gets boring and wanting that 560 was making me crazy!!,
mind you having said all that if you are shooting instinctive pretty much ignore everything i've just said cos that is another story....

[portsmouth495L/B]

thanks all ..it does make for an interesting topic, my arrows are from centrshot via merlin ( i think ) in the USA they only come in 12s and are 4way footed arrows, they are matched. my poa is approx 12yrds from the shooting line and approx 6inches right of edge of boss, so i put a marker on the floor.the main problem with the archer ( ie me ) is keeping it on my back, by this i mean keeping my elbow round towards my back and not out to the side . i shoot my l/b exactly the same as my recurve apart from not using a platform tab. it might be interesting to try fletchings that are slightly offset as suggested. having never fletched offset i take it the bottom of the fletching is placed where it should be and the off set is towards the end of the fletching.
i might give the placing of the hand as you have suggested ( stevezodiac ) although this would bring the point of refference with my hand out to the right rather than centre as it is now. still worth ago.
i think i will go with larger fletchings as well.

[stevezodiac]

I could never get the scores I wanted coming under the chin (which is the way I shoot L/B outdoors for target) and I always figured it was because my poa was too far from the target, mind you Russell French shot that way but using a rubber band and hit terrific scores, Robtattoo is right about the fletchings as that will slow the arrow too.
If you are going to start playing with fletchings here is a link to a real top Johnny arrowsmith and some tips of his re fletchings
http://www.arrowsbykelly.com/Other_Tips.html
It's the bit about the 60/120 offset at the bottom
I use this style of arrow for my flatbow sometimes and they are super and I have used them on my L/B's and it slows the arrow considerably- but then again for hunting and portsmouths you need accuracy and not necessarily speed.
Inducing spin in the arrow by helical offset of the fletch will also slow it down.
Having said all that its the practice and the building of muscle memory and being able to replicate the same shot 60 times that will pay off and if you shoot enough good arrows the score will follow inevitably.
Good luck and let me know when you get that 560 !!

[portsmouth495L/B]

let me know when you get that 560 !!

YEA RIGHT DON,T HOLD YOUR BREATH LOL. RUSSELL FRENCH ALSO USED A PLATFORM TAB!! SO I WAS INFORMED.
I WILL CHECK OUT THAT WEBB SITE. CHEERS

[kernowtom]

thanks for the follow ups - I am pleased to see my theorising fits with the experience of good archers (thanks especially to SteveZ). I have just started shooting indoors after a long lay off - and have been contemplating making some arrows better suited for 20x, (my outdoor arrows are 80g points, small fletchings) so I know I am heading the right way - thanks again
tom

[private sponge]

Originally Posted by portsmouth495L/B

let me know when you get that 560 !!

YEA RIGHT DON,T HOLD YOUR BREATH LOL. RUSSELL FRENCH ALSO USED A PLATFORM TAB!! SO I WAS INFORMED.
I WILL CHECK OUT THAT WEBB SITE. CHEERS

Wait one! Portsmouth, Russell has never used a platform tab in all the years I've known him. He uses a leather tab overlaid with pony skin.

[portsmouth495L/B]

Ok I Appologise For That, I Was Told That He Used A Platform Tab When I Was Shooting A Comp With Some One Who Was Using One And I Asked If They Were Allowed, The Reply Was " If Not Then All Russell Frenches Scores Don,t Count ".
Obviously Someone Got It Wrong Then.