Reflex/Deflex Longbows

[TJ Mason]

The reflex/deflex longbow looks a lot like Turkish, Hungarian and Mongol traditional bows. Shouldn't it go in the "Classic Hunter" category rather than the English Longbow category?

(Apologies if I'm talking cods -- not up to date on traditional bow categories.)

[Jerry Tee]

I am not sure if its true or not but a friend of mine who lives in NOTTS once told me that there was a record some where of a man called Robin Hood who built a haystack on the London to Nottingham road.

[Greenman]

Nothing wrong with haystacks, you can have a lot of fun in a haystack!

[Jerry Tee]

Had a chat with the club long bow guru today and he has a longbow with the curled up tips and he said that his bow does form a continuous arc when draw and went on to demonstrate and is therefore legal.

[Macbow]

Personally I think the main issue is aesthetics. Call me old fashioned but Reflex Deflex just doesn't look right with an ELB irrespective of how traditional it may be. Sometimes you just need to draw the line somewhere in order to maintain the spirit of the longbow. I doubt if the performance factor is that important as shooting any wooden bow with wooden arrows accurately off the hand is a big enough challenge. Some people always want to push the boundaries ever further and will always do so if rules are a bit grey. So even though I have never shot ELB (I definitely plan to in 2006) I say keep em straight.

[Yew Selfbow]

It seems that the reflex/deflex debate is quite a hot topic. There are two or three letters discussing the subject in the latest edition of Archery U.K.

[joetapley]

FITA rules have two definitions of a longbow. As I understand the rules the only time the 'English Longbow' has any meaning is as a Class Division in flight shooting. It would seem to make sense to have any longbow allowable under FITA rules in a competition to be also allowable under GNAS rules. Having a longbow that's permitted for a FITA but not allowed for a York seems a bit daft.

Longbow
- The bow shall correspond to the traditional form of a
longbow. It can be made from any material or combination
of materials. The shape of the grip and the limbs are
not restricted. Center shot is allowed. For Juniors and for
Women the bow shall be not less than 150cm in length;
and for Men the bow shall be not less than 160cm in
length, this being measured between the string nocks;
- When strung the string may not touch any other part of the
bow but the string notches;
- Bowstrings may be of any material;
- If the bow has an arrow shelf that shelf may be used as an
arrow rest, it may be covered with any type of soft material.
No other types of arrow rests are allowed;
- Only wooden shafts are allowed. The point weight for Juniors
and Women shall be 100 grains, for Men 125 grains.
Any type of nocks suitable for wooden arrows may be
used;
- Fletching shall consist of natural feathers only;
- In addition to the above Barebow rules apply.



English Longbow Division (Flight Shooting)
1. The bow shall be the traditional longbow made from
wood, with stacked belly, and nocks. For 24 inch to 26-
inch arrows the bow shall be not less than sixty inches in
length; and for arrows 27 inches or longer the bow shall
be not less than sixty-six inches in length, this being measured
between the string nocks.
2. At no point shall the depth of the bow - measured from
back to belly - be less than five eighths of the width of the
bow at the same section.
3. Bows of bamboo, constructed in conformity with the
above, shall be permitted.
4. Strings may be of either natural or man-made substance,
and may, if desired, embody a "kisser" at any point
as required, to facilitate a consistent draw position. The
use of extended 'platform' tabs for this purpose is not allowed.
5 Marks on the bow limb, or rubber bands of no more than
one eighth of an inch in depth and thickness, are permitted;
but sights as such are not allowed.
6. The bow shall carry no support for the arrow.

[English Bowman]

I don't have a problem with recurved English Longbows, provided they conform to the constuction rules.
I think that there is a lot more to the speed/power of the bow than just the shape, to give an example I recently did some range experiments with target arrows and some bows I had to hand, quick and dirty, but interesting. Here are the results. (I plan to repeat these experiments in more detail later.)
70lb Osage/Hickory straight ELB made by Bickerstaffe - 213yds
75lb Lemonwood/Hickory Recurve ELB made by Steve Ralphs - 141yds
50lb Lemonwood/Hickory straight ELB made by Bickerstaffe - 165 yds
50lb Mongolian style recurve - 160yds
and just for interest
250lb Medieval Crossbow - 163yds

So it seems to me that the recurve doesn't have that much of an advantage, out of the longbows, despite being the heaviest it has the shortest range with a target arrow.

Daniel

[long doc]

It would be nice to stay above this argument but as a tournament organiser am I to ban them or allow them?

The answer came through my door this morning with amendments to the BLBS Rules of Shooting. For laminated bows "When braced the profile of each limb shall be a simple curve from handle to nock" and "For all bows the string may contact the braced bow only at the nocks and shall not touch the limbs".

At least I have a reasonably simple test to apply if anyone challenges another's bow. Hopefully GNAS will come up with the same formula.

[Anyone wishing to shoot a traditional longbow two-way Western on St.George's Day in Morley, West Yorkshire should look at St.George Longbow Tournament.

[long doc]

Originally Posted by Jerry Tee

Had a chat with the club long bow guru today and he has a longbow with the curled up tips and he said that his bow does form a continuous arc when draw and went on to demonstrate and is therefore legal.

The new BLBS rule concerns the bow when it is braced (ie strung) not when it is at full draw. Plenty of scope for arguments on the shooting line I fear.

[note to self: always carry rules of shooting with me at tournaments!]