Reflex/Deflex Longbows

[laminatekid]

Originally Posted by Yew Selfbow

Tom
Sorry,I have to disagree with you I'm afraid. Having handled and examined the Mary Rose bows in great detail, I can assure you that they are almost exactly the same as any self bow made in the Victorian or modern era. So that makes the D section, straight limbed bow as we know it today at least 500 years old

hey sorry a bit late to this discussin but had to join in at this slightly backwards stage,the aschcott heath bow is 4660 years old and looks almost identical to a victorian buchannen style longbow, some of the mary rose bows are almost flat in section one being trapezoid in section and would not comply to blbs rules. the welsh elm bows that everyone mentions as leading to the artillery bow of the 14th c would have been closer to the meare heath bow which is a flatbow and older at 4960 years old( if you dont belive me get a nice piece of elm from a timber merchants and try and make a d section longbow have fun!!)many of the mary rose bows featue a reflex profile but the blbs is wholey based around the victorian recreational bow which would almost definatly straight limbs.(don't get me started on robin hood!!)

[Yew Selfbow]

Laminatekid...
What's your opinion on the new B.L.B.S. rules regarding Long bow profiles and laminations. Unfortunatley one of my bows is now unshootable (if there is such a word) because it thas more than 6 laminations.

[laminatekid]

unfortunatly rules are rules and once written thats it, i think they are trying to keep the spirit of the victorian style of shooting, the contaradiction being it was common practice by victorian bowyers to make yew billet bows forward set to improve cast which still happens and still complies i still have a problem with the 5/8 rules which is a lot of the mary rose bows would not comply to it and a lot of snakey victorian self yews i have seen fail to comply!!the six or less laminations is nonsense just remember horace ford now a respected archer was heavily critisised in his day for technique until people saw his scores so there is some hope maybe in the future the rules will apeal to people who dont see m-m-m-m-m-1 as a decent end!!

[Bald Eagle]

Now, I've heard on the grapevine, so don't quote me, that in the not too distant future, all long bows must have, for health and safety reasons, a laminate of bo tuff or some other grade of fibreglass, built into the bow!! So many are breaking in the States that archers in near proximity are getting hit with flying shards of wood. I suppose it makes sense to a non traditionalist but how do you guys feel about it?

[laminatekid]

wouldn't suprise me ,the joys of h&s....oh yes and all arrows must have a cork over the point because they are sharp and must be shot at a distance of 3yrds to prevent injury....PAH!!!(do i sound bitter because i'm really quite nice!!?!)

[English Bowman]

Originally Posted by Bald Eagle

Now, I've heard on the grapevine, so don't quote me, that in the not too distant future, all long bows must have, for health and safety reasons, a laminate of bo tuff or some other grade of fibreglass, built into the bow!! So many are breaking in the States that archers in near proximity are getting hit with flying shards of wood. I suppose it makes sense to a non traditionalist but how do you guys feel about it?

I think that you are being wound up, considering that the definition of a longbow is that it is only made from wood or bamboo and fibreglass is banned it would need a 180 degree rule change to bring this in which would make everybody's bows illegal in one foul swoop. This would never happen.

As for if it makes sense or not, I would be against such a rule change. I have seen a few bows break, and only once have I seen any injury. Usually the fragments of bow fly forward not back. By including man made materials you are changing the very nature of the weapon and making it more consistent. If I wanted that, I could shoot recurve bare bow. I want the challenge of the bow reacting differently depending on the time of day and weather conditions. Strange I know, but I like how the bow feels, and how you have to understand how it is feeling to shoot it at its best. I feel that a glass core would take away from this.

Anyway, as I said, I can't see it happening over here.

[Artemis]

Seems I might be a bit late to this thread, but on the off chance there is still someone interested..........

Comparing the recreational longbow with a Mary Rose bow is pointless - you might as well compare a Mighty Antar with a landau - diffferent bows for different uses.

Did not notice anyone using the dreaded word "recurved" which is what the purists in the BLBS are unhappy about. Seems lots of folk just have not sussed the difference between recurved and deflexed.

(Here come the history lesson) When the BLBS was founded, it was with the express purpose of preserving the use of the bows which were being used in the 1940's and 50's - direct descendants of those used in Georgian, Victorian and Edwardian times for recreational purposes. There were strange new bows appearing - steel bows, and recurved laminated bows and AFB's. A small group of archers did not want the older bows to disappear. They had no idea then that the BLBS would become the large organisation it is today. The first rules were written on a card the size of a credit card and mainly concerned meetings and officers.

Early rules on equipment were for the guidance of those who - of necessity - were re-learning the lost skills of longbow making, at a time when old bows were at risk of breaking and many did in fact succumb on the line.

The 5/8 rule was introduced to preclude 'flat' bows; however, many cross sections come within the 5/8 rule and in fact are historically correct - although they may not strictly conform to the 'D' section.

Yes, some old longbows were set forward and some were deflexed, what they were not was recurved - with the exeption of some in Scotland, known as MacNaughton bows, which definitely were.

Finding ancient engravings of war bows with curvy ends has no bearing on what the BLBS accepts as a longbow for its own bow meetings. Over the years the Society has been called many things - not all complimentary; but the fact remains that it was formed by a small group of enthusiasts wishing to preserve what they were shooting at that time. The Society's purpose has never been innovation, modification or 'improvement' when it comes to equipment.

There now - what was the question ?

[alanesq]

My goal is to get myself a bow which is as close as I can get to what would have been used by medieval archers (of Agincourt fame etc.)
so working towards this goal, my latest bow is a 120lb full compass bow with no handle etc.

As I understand it, BLBS would not allow me to use this bow ?
I was thinking of joining until I was told this !

I am not allowed to use it at my Field archery club

I believe GNAS are ok with it but I could be wrong ?

Unless I am missing something I seem to be being excluded because I have a traditional English longbow ? :-(

So it seems to me that a lot of the clubs are not promoting the traditional English longbow of 100 years war fame etc. but the Victorian longbow - I know this has already been mentioned a couple of times but I think its an important point which most people don't realise ?

[Raedwald]

Wouldn't it fit under the NFAS Primitive class?

[alanesq]

My field club have a rule that no longbow over 70lbs can be used
I assumed it was a NFAS rule but it could just be my club? Its worth looking into as if NFAS don't ban it why should my club ??

It just seems sad that archery clubs wont let me in because I am trying to get myself an authentic longbow - I had imagined this would be their main aim too as far as longbows go.

They say its a safety thing but I can't believe my bow is more dangerous than a compound? Not that it makes much difference which bow an arrow came from if it hits you!
or its because it will damage the targets but my arrows are tapered down to a standard target 11/32" pile and they don't cause any damage I can see