Reflex/Deflex Longbows

[Haywain]

I like this topic (not) reminds me of the ever repeating argument over AFB's in the NFAS. And it is always the same argument over Reflex / Deflex limbs.

Even if a rule change manages to sort the issue out in the eyes of organisers, there will always be those who complain about it and try to get the rule altered.

[dtalbot]

Originally Posted by alanesq

My field club have a rule that no longbow over 70lbs can be used
I assumed it was a NFAS rule but it could just be my club? Its worth looking into as if NFAS don't ban it why should my club ??

I'm no expert but I have read the NFAS rules figuring out what class my and the kids bows come in but I've not come across a longbow poundage one, only one remotely related I know of is a 300fps max arrow speed. I've found NFAS to be really helpful so just fire off the question.

[Artemis]

As I almost said before - it is horses for courses. If you are after a French knight then you need a warbow, but for some gentle activity on the greensward a recreational bow is more suitable.

The 70lb rule was first put forward by BLBS - largely for safety, but also because it was generaly agreed that this was the upper limit at which a bow could reasonabley be called "recreational" i.e. for target or clout.

It might seem odd that a compound - which if let off at 45 degrees will send an arrow into the next county - should be allowed, whilst a heavy bow is banned. However, the point here is one of control. A heavy bow shooter may be in control for the first couple of dozen, but what about the rest of the day ? and an archer not completely in control is a hazard.

Without being rude, alanesq, you have excluded yourself by choosing to shoot a heavy bow. Or to put it more kindly, the type of bow you have is for long distance "power" shooting (or potting Frenchmen ) and not appropriate to recreational target or clout.

Never mind, you can get to shoot your heavy bow by joining the small but enthusiastic band of heavy bow shooters at one of the meetings specially organised for them. Here they shoot purely for distance, as was done at competitions in earlier times, so you would need some "Standard Arrows". This is so that everyone has an equal chance. There is also the matter of Insurance; and if you joined BLBS you would be covered for those Standard Arrow meetings organised under their auspices.

The next Standard Arrow meeting is at Badminton, Glos. on 1st July. You would not be able to compete unless you were a BLBS member; but you could join in the Roving shoot organised on the same day by the Duke of Beaufort's Foresters, and then watch the heavy bow enthusiasts getting it together during the "interval".

Hope this is helpful

[English Bowman]

Originally Posted by alanesq

My goal is to get myself a bow which is as close as I can get to what would have been used by medieval archers (of Agincourt fame etc.)
so working towards this goal, my latest bow is a 120lb full compass bow with no handle etc.

As I understand it, BLBS would not allow me to use this bow ?
I was thinking of joining until I was told this !

I am not allowed to use it at my Field archery club

I believe GNAS are ok with it but I could be wrong ?

Unless I am missing something I seem to be being excluded because I have a traditional English longbow ? :-(

So it seems to me that a lot of the clubs are not promoting the traditional English longbow of 100 years war fame etc. but the Victorian longbow - I know this has already been mentioned a couple of times but I think its an important point which most people don't realise ?

GNAS have no upper limit regarding bow weight, but then no one at a GNAS target or field tournament will thank you if your bow does undue damage to the targets. Saying that if you make the arrows with big fletchings to slow them down and taper the arrow to a reasonable size pile that shouldn't be a problem.
The BLBS wasn't set up to preserve the war bow, it had already been lost by the time that they were formed.
The war bow has only recently been "rediscovered" and there is a lot of debate about what it was. No one has a difinitive answer to that, it's all guesswork based on the available evidence, and as we've seen on other threads there are many different ways of interpreting that evidence. You can't blame the BLBS for standing up for the reason they were formed, to preserve the recreational use on the longbow.
(That said I disagree with the a lot of the more recent rules, but that's another debate.)

Daniel

[alanesq]

What I find surprising is that GNAS who have lots of odd rules (e.g. you have to wear green to shoot ???) and are by far the most strict are the only ones who will let me shoot
If it wasn't for my local target club then there would be nowhere I would be able to use my bow (apart from the occasional rove)

BTW - On the subject of how heavy warbows would have been; I soon discovered that on roves my 90lb bow was starting to feel very light (despite my thinking it was very heavy when I first got it) and I was having trouble getting the range I wanted (even with my relatively light arrows) - hence my recently moving up to a 120lb bow
I have only been shooting warbow for a couple of months, so this shows to me that medieval archers would not have been content with a 100lb bow

but I am probably going a bit off subject ;-)

[Mad Archer]

My understanding of the BLBS rule to prevent the use of recurved longbows wasn't a simple reaction to the use of the word recurve. The aim was to keep the equipment as unchanged as possible from its origins, so that it is possible to compare performances in the 21st century with those from when BLBS was founded. Over the years there have beenn some allowances for the modern lifestlye - laminated bows because it is difficult and expensive to get self wood bows and the use of plastic arrow nocks because they are safer (less liable to break on release). I think the current rules fall within the spirit of this intent, although I sympathise with you that you have been left with a bow that no longer meets the regulations.

[English Bowman]

I am unconvinced that there is a performance gain to be made from a recurved longbow. If there is then it's no more than the gain made by switching to a better wood, or a better bowyer, or increasing your draw weight, or better arrows etc.
I think that the rule is a bad one and personally would like it revoked.

(And no none of my longbows are recurved, they're all straight limbed)

Daniel

[alanesq]

Originally Posted by Artemis

As I almost said before - it is horses for courses. If you are after a French knight then you need a warbow, but for some gentle activity on the greensward a recreational bow is more suitable.....

One day maybe all archers will shoot together

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by alanesq

BTW - ..... I soon discovered that on roves my 90lb bow was starting to feel very light (despite my thinking it was very heavy when I first got it) and I was having trouble getting the range I wanted (even with my relatively light arrows) - hence my recently moving up to a 120lb bow

Alanesque - there are other reasons why your bow might begin to feel light as the day goes on. One is that it is 'letting down' or getting tired, especially in hot weather. The other is that, perhaps without realising it, your draw-length is gradually getting shorter. Both of these would result in you not getting the arrow so far as when you started.

There is more involved in getting a good distance than just the potential power of the bow - in fact the heavier the bow the more potential is lost pro rata. The quality of the bow and the skill/technique of the archer are both critical. I do not know what distances your rove has which you cannot reach with a 90lb bow, but as an example, I have reached 170 yards with a bow which is 32lbs at my draw-length (26") using an ordinary target arrow; whilst there are men shooting 50lb bows who have difficulty in getting 180yards for the clout. Just upping the poundage can be counter-productive unless the other considerations are dealt with. The best bow is the one in which the maximum amouint of potential is converted to kinetic. The best shot is a dynamic one which gets the most out of the bow

"Here endeth the lesson" Vee

[alanesq]

Whilst I say my light weight arrows they are still 800 grain which I think would be a heavy arrow to most people?
I realise I can get a great distance with lighter arrows etc. but I am talking about throwing a war arrow as would have been used in battle and my 90lb bow really struggles to get 160 yards (as do others of similar poundage)
I didn't mean that as the day went on I felt the bow was losing power, just that despite most people thinking my 90lb bow is very heavy actually I am already discovering I want more power

I have not had chance to really try my 120lb bow yet but I have discovered that shooting one of my arrows with just 26" draw puts the arrow deeper into the boss than my 90lb bow at 32" draw, so I suspect it's going to be a big difference

So my experience is that If I want to throw a war arrow 240 yards I can't do it with a 90lb longbow